Camera Labs

Hi folks,

Do you use a "professional" printing service for those really special prints? If so then would you care to share your experiences?

I used to use a printing service back in the old days (film) but with the advent of digital cameras and home photo-printers fell out of the habit. It occurs to me that I might one day take a photograph good enough to justify printing in the traditional way rather than with ink or laser toner.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

I've made some big prints using various continuous tone technologies at places like Metro in the UK (a chain of pro labs) and the results can certainly look very nice.

Probably the biggest difference to watch out for is a lack of perceived sharpness compared to an inket - as discussed elsewhere, this is due to the way inkjets work. So some continuous tone output can look a bit soft in comparison.

Some pro services can really be quite terrifyingly expensive though and many end up using the same actual printers as some cheaper services - so it's always worth checking the system which will be outputting your print - some are actually just high-end inkjets.

Of course the pro lab should have a pro operator and it should all be calibrated, but you might be surprised how good a result you'll get by just choosing the larger print sizes at places like Photobox...

The trick is to know what sort of adjustments you need to apply in order to get the desired result from their printer. And that just takes a few test tries first - maybe try making a comp of several different settings to see which looks the best...

Gordon

Thanks Gordon, I have added Metro to my Bookmarks.

A quick search on the net for UK firms turned up RGB Labs but your warning about which printing system they might use makes me realise I need to do a bit more research.

Then, of course, there is the tiny matter of taking any photographs worthy of the expense.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Of course when we go into these places and comment with disgust that they're using the same printer anyone (with a reasonable budget!) could buy, they are entitled to say a pro photographer with a budget DSLR will still take great shots - ie it's all down to the operator, not the kit.

But then what winds me up is when they give a printer an esoteric name when in fact it's just a large format Epson inkjet behind the scenes...

Gordon

Hi folks,

Are there any experts on the virtues and vices of using the Adobe1998 versus sRGB colour spaces in CameraLabs forum land?

The question follows on from my search for a good printing service for those special size prints. I have recently been working on an image which, as it turned out, was produced in Adobe1998. Not a problem, I thought, as this has the potential to display more colours than sRGB. However most of the online print services require files to be sRGB.

While I can down convert I am puzzled as to why a printer should require sRGB which I thought, perhaps erroneously, was introduced because of the limitations of the colours available from monitors (LCD and CRT). Can anyone enlighten me please?

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Bob. Can. Worms. Open. Everywhere!!

I spent some time looking into the pros and cons of using Adobe RGB and it mostly ended up causing my head to explode. The short of it is that if you process AND print your photos yourself (and you know what you're doing when it comes to configuring colours) then it's worth shooting in Adobe RGB. If you send your photos off to labs or plan on uploading images to the web then stay in sRGB.

Google "Adobe RGB vs sRGB" and you'll find a host of information. Not very helpful I know but this subject is just so massive and it's been argued for years apparently.

As to why most print houses have their printers configured to sRGB, I'm not sure.

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My Flickr

Hi TelexStar,

Thanks for pointing me to the Google Adobe RGB vs sRGB search. The first result was the CambridgeInColour.com sRGB vs. ADOBE RGB 1998 entry and I think that it pretty much gives all the answers.

Maybe I'm just feeling crabby this evening but to my mind if a Lab insists on an sRGB colour space then they must be using printers which can do no better. As a customer I, at least, can do better so my search for a good Lab continues. Or maybe I'll just have to start saving for my own personal A3 printer, as Thomas (tombomba2) wisely suggested some time ago in another thread.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Bob can you upload a picture of you manual settings please so I know I am on the right track.

Also is it the case the WB (white balance) is excluded when shoots are made in raw. If so, is a white and/or grey card necessary if one is shooting in RAW – yes or no? I think the answer is no as any WB settings in manual mode are ignored. Is this true?

Thanks for nay help.

Therefore, Gordon, what you are saying is that photo labs are using the same printers that we can get off the net. Is this true?

Is there any reason against printing your own images as long as one uses high-quality paper? Any recommendations for paper would be appreciated here too.

I am also having problems with my flash but it may be me. It is the Canon 580 EX Mark II. As soon as I turn it on it goes off. As long as the power button for the flash remains on and the camera shutter is depressed halfway, it comes on, again for a nano-second.

Is this normal? Have I a mode or setting that is incorrect.

It was working for the first night. It has not been dropped or abused. If I take the 580 off the build-in flash will work so a flash is needed sometimes in a shot that the 580 does not flash on. Therefore, when I put the 580 on shooting the same location, nothing happens.

Martin’s Camera Shop will replace it without a single quibble as I explained this to Lynda. Martin was out but she is going to past the message on in case this is not normal. If it was a computer I could say yes or no, but camera, I’m as good as a newbie.

Am I doing something wrong?

Hi G,

I use the camera's shipping defaults but (usually) with Daylight white balance and Landscape picture style (settings 4,0,0,0). I stick to the Mode Dial's Creative Zone settings rather than the Basic Zone ones. Page 67 of the 40D manual states that "in the Basic Zone modes Auto white balance will be set automatically". I capture RAW + Large Fine JPEG files.

As I understand it DPP will apply the camera's white balance settings to the RAW files it loads as a starting point. However, because it still has all the data you can change the settings at will.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Bob do you have the Canon 580 Mark II as I think mine may be damage but I need to review the manual first as I’m only part way through it. Martin’s Camera Shop has told me there is no problem replacing it with a new one. I need to make sure I've set it up probably.

The problem is this.

As soon as I turn the flash on and the power switch remains on, it turns itself of. It blinks for as moment when the shutter is half depressed and then disappears. On the first day it worked great.

I’ve used the build-in flash to ensure flash was needed. Use the Canon equivalent and nothing.

So it sound like it may be a dud,

Thanks for the insight Boob.

Just bought the book: Canon EOS 40D Guide to Digital Photography

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Canon EOS 40D, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L USM, Canon SL 580 EX Mark II, Canon Battery Flash Unit CP-E4, Canon BG-E2N (Battery Grip), Canon Right Angle Finder C, B+W 77mm Kaeseman CP (MRC) Filter, B+W 77mm UV Haze 010 (MRC) Filter, Canon Timer RC TC-80N3, etc.

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Sorry, but I don't own the 580. Short of cleaning the contacts on the camera hot-shoe and the flash and checking the batteries then, if the troubleshooting section of the manual is no help, I would be taking the unit back to the shop.

Let us know how you get on.

Bob.

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OM-D E-M5 + ED 12-50mm, H-PS14042E, H-F007014E, L-RS014150E, M.ZUIKO DIGITAL 45mm 1:1.8.
Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.

Ok Bob thanks for the heads up on your camera settings.

I will have the 580 manual done tonight but it will not be much help if it does not stay on long enough

I’m going to check first, and then as Lynda said from Martin’s Camera Shop, just send it straight back for a new one.

I'm on page 40 of the Canon 40D manaul but I just bought this book:

Canon EOS 40D Guide to Digital Photography

This should help me a lot.

The book I concentrating on is "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom book: The Complete Guide for Photographers".

I guess this will do the same as DPP.

I have LR V1.3.1 with RAW 4.3.1.

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Canon EOS 40D, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L USM, Canon SL 580 EX Mark II, Canon Battery Flash Unit CP-E4, Canon BG-E2N (Battery Grip), Canon Right Angle Finder C, B+W 77mm Kaeseman CP (MRC) Filter, B+W 77mm UV Haze 010 (MRC) Filter, Canon Timer RC TC-80N3, etc.

I got a new replacement of the 580 EX II. It eats batteries so get lots rechargeable batteries.

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Canon EOS 40D, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L USM, Canon SL 580 EX Mark II, Canon Battery Flash Unit CP-E4, Canon BG-E2N (Battery Grip), Canon Right Angle Finder C, B+W 77mm Kaeseman CP (MRC) Filter, B+W 77mm UV Haze 010 (MRC) Filter, Canon Timer RC TC-80N3, etc.