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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:12 am 
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The 7D has good autofocus for action photography but Canon seem content on a somewhat lesser autofocus system on the 5D mk2.


Just to re-establish a quid pro quo - but last I checked we do not know that Canon was content with anything. And I doubt that upon the release of the 5Dmk2 that they decided to hold back the AF system and the 8fps on the 5Dmk2 and then charge us 2000 dollars more than the 7D

Fact: both cameras are separated by 11 months and 13 days of time
Fact: in 2008, dual Digic 4 processers were not in production - therefore the fps was as high as Canon was comfortable with using a 21MP FULL FRAME sensor.
Fact: the 5Dmk2 was improved to Digic 4 FROM Digic 2.

Its not like Canon was holding anything back, it seems that from some of the announcements and the reviews of 2008, 5Dmk2 was something that pushed the boundaries of what Canon could do at the time. I dont think they were content, they were pushing the limits.

As for the auto focus being dissapointing, well sure it is, but its not like Canon has the Nikon auto focus boffins making their AF system - Its like saying that Canon glass is dissapointing because Olympus has always made excellent lenses for cheaper and that Canon cant keep up with them and that Canon is holding back with their kit lenses since the same twin lens kit for the 60D is still avaliable with the 1100D, its still an unfair comparison. One year is a LONG time between cameras I recently learned. It wasnt long ago that I thought a 3 point auto focus system was a huge leap then 6 months later my local store was talking about the new 9AF from canon and the 51 from Nikon.

Quote:
It is interesting that Canon seems to be increasing the difference between their cameras for portrait/landscape cameras and action cameras but is intent on giving us video features.


I dissagree - Canon for a good 10 years made the BEST damn Digital Video cameras for the Semi Pro - for years I worked with the XL1 and the XL2 and they had the market STILL for video cameras. If Canon can implement video into a DSLR without compramising still image quality, why not? And last I checked:

Fact: Nikon released video on a DSLR FIRST with the D90

Canon has been playing catch up with Nikon for a while but the 5Dmk2 represented Canon willing to spend money to get the first FF camera over 20MP and they got it right too - and when I was working in sales, the Canon rep told me that in Japan, the first 5Dmk2 COST Canon more than the asking price because they were trying to push the limits.

The Canon AF system at the time of 2008 was the BEST THEY HAD at the time. Sure you cant compare it to the D300 or the D700, but I dont think you can expect Canon to say, woops, 21MP is too much for our processor to handle so only studio photographers should buy it.

Thats just being unfair to them - its like demanding Canon should put the AF system from the 7D into the 5D when at the time it was probably an unfinished, untested and probably non-existant technology - and when they say, we cant, the reply I am getting from your post is "But it exists in a camera that you released a year later, and Nikon has 51 and you are cheating us sports photographers."

I remember using a 5Dmk2 for sport and yes I would have liked a 1D or the 50D at the time of release for the better FPS, but really now, 50D shifts 10MP and the 5Dmk2 shfits more than double that, and the FPS difference? Relative! 5fps vs 3.9fps, thats MORE than half for DOUBLE the resolution for the SAME processor.

So how does the 1D shoot faster and have a better AF? It costs more... thats why.... So why are people suprised that the 7D fills that need for the crop market? If you want FF why not a 1D? I for one am glad that the 1D is so expensive so I CAN afford the 7D.

Sorry for the rant but I LOVE my 7D and I used 5Dmk2 in uni and at school to teach the kids there but its not by any means a downgrade or a upgrade, it fills the need to have high FPS and nice AF for someone who cant afford the 1D or 5D. Never have I heard of a company tell its customers, "if you shoot portrait, get a 5Dmk2, we made it for you. If you want to shoot high speed, buy another camera." To assume a camera company is doing this, Im surpised why so many 5Dmk2's show up in the Tennis and in the F1 next to 1D's etc.

*collapse*

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:21 am 
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Quote:
It is interesting that Canon seems to be increasing the difference between their cameras for portrait/landscape cameras and action cameras but is intent on giving us video features.


This is a fact,video just add feature for the user

Quote:
Never have I heard of a company tell its customers, "if you shoot portrait, get a 5Dmk2, we made it for you. If you want to shoot high speed, buy another camera


of course not,but if you call canon or go the your local camera shop. tell the man I'm Interested in buying a body and I'm going to shoot weddings, portrait,landscape and mostly still shots. he's going to tell you the 5d2 is the camera you want. (why) picture quality.

so you tell him, i had my hart set on a 7d.(because it's in my price range) yes he's going to say the 7d a fine camera but it's more targeted more for sports, wildlife.(why) tracking system in servo modes with 19 focus points,more weather prof.

both camera will do what ever you want then to,but i bet the 7d will out shot the 5d2 in sports and if you use the 7d for weddings you want have the picture quality.

and that is fact

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:01 am 
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Do you feel better now Leo? Good.

Raw is correct. The 7D is sold as an 'action' camera the 5D as a 'portrait/landscape' camera. Essentially if you want to do both the advice would be to buy both. Canon would see the advantage with that - they think they would sell more camera bodies, and lenses when you consider a full frame camera needs different lenses for optimal use compared to a crop frame camera.

Canon seem to be looking to a more versatile camera with the 1D X, but at a much higher price. I can only hope they take a similar approach with the 5D mk3. That would mean a camera with a full frame sensor, the Digic5 processor (or two of them) and better auto focus to make life easier for quick well focused photos without requiring extensive set up time (more than a second or two). High resolution is good for cropping but otherwise present resolutions produce excellent photos.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:22 am 
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Well, I do feel better - I just never really understood all the Canon bashing when it comes to the 7D being what it is when compared to the 5Dmk2

if its not about the 60D, then I dont know why the 5D comparrison when Canon did admit it was trying to fill a gap to compete directly with Nikon, so it was never about making a sports camera. In Gordons review he makes mention that all the new features are all geared towards features already in Nikon's line up and it seems like Canons way to edge people back to Canon.

Im not trying to troll an argument, I see all your points but I dont think that making suggestions that the 5Dmk2 SHOULD do something when the technology wasnt avaliable is a bit of a stretch. And the 7D its supposed to be the spiritual sucessor of the 50D which was pitted against the D300 from nikon and fell to pieces in the arena stat for stat, so Im not suprised Canon wanted to address that a year after it kicked Nikon in the face with the Mark 2.

I mean, I see how Canon is going about this all and I think its good, and I like it better than making a super 5D - In fact if it released a Mark 3 over the 7D, I would still be with Olympus waiting for something affordable, or maybe Id be here talking about the D300s.

Im glad they made the 7D - cause when I bought my Oly, I WAS about to get the 40D since the 5D will always be out of my reach.

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2) Pentax MZ-60 [Sigma 28-90 & 100-300]
3) Canon 7D [EF-S 15-85 & 70-200mm f/4 IS & 50mm f1.4]
4) Leica M [50mm Summicron Pre-aspherical - Silver]

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Of course the upgrade to the 40D is the 7D. The 50D and 60D are merely small improvements of the 40D in the same price bracket.

Quote:
if its not about the 60D, then I dont know why the 5D comparrison


I, like many others, have the 40D and am looking to upgrade to a better camera which has a full frame sensor and better features / facilities. The 7D is still a crop frame camera but has better facilities. It is now technically possible, with dual digic5 processors, to have faster frame rates with a full frame sensor, and the better autofocus has already been been available in the 7D.

The 1D X goes some way to doing this but is in a more expensive price bracket. Hopefully the latest production techniques will allow the 5D mk3 to have all of this in the lower price bracket.

Maybe I will end up saving for the 1D X but I would hope the 5D mk3 will fit the bill.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:46 pm 
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I hope so too - If the 5Dmk3 has similar facilities to my 7D - I will be happy by the time the mk5 or the mk6 comes out - cause by then, I will be looking to get FF and know that most of the issues with the 5D and mk2 have been ironed out - just like they did witht he 1DXmk4

Now, to see if Canon will release a FF body in white :P

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2) Pentax MZ-60 [Sigma 28-90 & 100-300]
3) Canon 7D [EF-S 15-85 & 70-200mm f/4 IS & 50mm f1.4]
4) Leica M [50mm Summicron Pre-aspherical - Silver]

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:13 pm 
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Canon may make the 5D (3) have more megapixels than the 1DX to boost sales. This will make the customer think harder as to which one they get, although price points will be very different.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:35 am 
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My 5Dmk wishlist

- small MP increase
- 5fps minimum
- more than 30 crosstype AF points (as if)
- ISO range and performance to rival Nikon
- CHEAP!

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2) Pentax MZ-60 [Sigma 28-90 & 100-300]
3) Canon 7D [EF-S 15-85 & 70-200mm f/4 IS & 50mm f1.4]
4) Leica M [50mm Summicron Pre-aspherical - Silver]

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:08 am 
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Quote:
- small MP increase
- 5fps minimum
- more than 30 crosstype AF points (as if)
- ISO range and performance to rival Nikon
- CHEAP!


... and autofocus capability at least as good as the 7D!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:40 pm 
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As a primary landscape/portrait DSLR that's not going to happen I think...

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:45 pm 
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Quote:
As a primary landscape/portrait DSLR that's not going to happen I think...


The 1D X can do it. The technology is available for Canon to do it.

I don't see why the 5D should primarily be a landscape / portrait DSLR. That would just prolong the attitude of having to buy two camera bodies each for action or landscape when the technology is available to do both in one camera body.

Furthermore why should action photographers have to have crop frame sensors only?

If Nikon do it Canon are going to be left behind.

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