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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:18 am 
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Hi folks,

Hidden in the hoopla surrounding the "pro" Cinema EOS system we have:
    DSLR camera with 4K Movie function

    Canon has also announced it’s developing a next-generation DSLR camera that’s equipped with a 35mm full-frame CMOS sensor and supports the recording of 4K video* (at a frame rate of 24P, with Motion-JPEG compression) for exceptional image quality that allows the creation of innovative and expressive images. Full details of this camera will be revealed on the CPN website when they become available.

    (* Cropped to APS-H-equivalent size (dimensions measuring approximately 80% vertically and horizontally of a 35mm full-frame sensor) when recording in 4K.)


    source
Now that's more like it - the 1D X isn't the last word in full frame announcements from Canon. Whether this camera will be the 5D Mark II successor and there will be yet another full-framer to satisfy those folks looking for a 36MP studio camera I have no idea. But if I were to lay odds I wouldn't be favouring a launch of the "next-generation DSLR camera" referenced above for about a year. Hope I'm wrong.

Bob.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:28 am 
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.
and here's the press release:
    Coming Attractions: New Canon Digital SLR Camera Under Development

    HOLLYWOOD, California, November 3, 2011/TOKYO, November 4, 2011 – Canon Inc. today announced that the company is developing a new-concept EOS-series digital single-lens reflex (SLR) camera. Incorporating an enhanced version of the video-capture capability offered in the current EOS-series lineup, the new camera will be ideally suited for cinematographic and other digital high-resolution production applications. The model will be equipped with a 35 mm full-frame CMOS sensor and, enabling the recording of 4K video* (at a frame rate of 24P, with Motion-JPEG compression), will make possible the type of exceptional image quality and sublime imaging expression to be expected from the next generation of "EOS Movies."

    The announcement coincides with the launch of the Cinema EOS System, marking Canon's full-fledged entry into the digital high-resolution production industry. The new professional digital cinematography system spans the lens, digital cinema camera and digital SLR camera product categories.

    Further details regarding the new EOS digital SLR camera currently under development, including the product name, specifications and scheduled launch date, have yet to be decided.

    EOS Movie: A New Industry Standard

    Movie recording has been a standard feature in all newly introduced Canon EOS-series digital SLR cameras since the launch of the EOS 5D Mark II in November 2008. Coupled with the diverse array of lenses in Canon's current interchangeable EF lens lineup, this feature has heralded rich visual expressive possibilities, delivering such characteristics as beautiful image blur and low noise while also garnering kudos for the mobility and maneuverability made possible through the cameras' compact and lightweight body designs.

    The impressive images created by the combination of Canon EOS digital SLR cameras and EF lenses, known as "EOS Movies," have already earned their screen credentials on the sets of multiple productions, from television commercials and artist promotion videos to episodic dramas and even major motion pictures.

    For more information and to view online demonstration footage of the new products please visit: www.canoncinemaeos.com

    .......................................................................................................###

    * Cropped to APS-H-equivalent size (dimensions measuring approximately 80% vertically and horizontally of a 35 mm full-frame sensor) when recording in 4K.
Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:11 am 
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While I missed it myself at the time, there was a 2nd DSLR-like body in the back of the group shots from the announcements. All you can see was the red C identifier on it. Could this be the upcoming camera?

While they only announced development of it now, they would have started before now so we have to wait and see how far along they got.

I also wonder if there will be a longer term impact in the stills side. Does this attempt at growing into the video segment come in addition or instead of stills development?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:49 am 
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Hi folks,

Having slept on it I'm a bit confused about what exactly Canon has "pre-announced" here. If it's 4K then it could end up competing directly against the C300. That either means that this new DSLR has to wait until the 4K version of the C300 is ready or that Canon design it in such a way that it will not an attractive option for the film-makers.
    Image
The prototype body has a built in portrait grip which echoes the 1-series styling - actually, I'd go further and suggest that the photo above is of a 1D X body with a different badge! The C300 has an 8 MP sensor for 2K output which implies, although I struggle a bit with the nomenclature, that a 4K sensor would have a 32 MP if the red, green and blue channels were read in the same way as the C300. But Canon have also said that the 4K output would be derived from an APS-H sized area on the sensor. That would imply a 56 MP sensor. :shock:

Or ... the DSLR would be deriving its 4K (4096 x 2160 pixels) output from a regular Bayer sensor. So we have 8 MP in an APS-H sized area on the full-frame sensor implying a total pixel count of just under 14 MP for the whole sensor unless line skipping of some sort is employed.

These are "back of a fag packet" calculations but if I've got them about right then Canon has either pre-announced a 56 MP stills camera with stunning video output or a 14 MP stills camera which can produce 4K video output, albeit 4K derived by de-bayering. If the former then it's of acedemic interest to most of us here short of holding a winning lottery ticket but a 1-series styled body with 14 MP which has been heavily optimised for video is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons! :twisted:

Which option do you think Canon has announced here? Looks less and less like a 5D Mark III to me. :?

Bob.

Edit: Maths correction - I originally posited 54MP.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:15 pm 
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There's other photos of the mock up elsewhere, and it certainly looks like they re-badged a 1D X body just to have something to show.

The C300 has a 4k bayer sensor which is binned down to 1080p. So possibly the DSLR version might just offer the bayer output. However I'm not sure an 8MP-ish DSLR is going to cut it unless it is sold as a video SLR first, with stills secondary.

Actually I didn't compare how Super35 compares to APS-H or 35mm, so if it crops a bigger sensor the stills resolution might yet be something closer to typical stills usage today.

As to Canon bodies, I have suspected they have two full frame stills models to come by the end of next year. One is the 5D3. This might be the other one.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:32 am 
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Hi folks,

I thought I'd revive this thread since there is now this rumour from Northlight Images:
    5D X

  • 45MP (With a pixel size similar to the power shot G1X)
  • 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but simpler)
  • 3.4 fps, 100-6400 (50-12800)
  • 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4

    5D mk III
  • 22MP
  • 61 points AF (Similar to the 1DX but but simpler)
  • 6.9 fps, ISO 100-25600(50-51200)
  • 1 Digic 5+ Digic 4
  • Best HD video quality of any EOS camera

    Both over $3k
That 45MP for a "5D X" is getting close to the 56MP I predicted in my previous post in this thread. Personally I'd find the 22MP of the rumoured 5D3 specification plenty (I'd actually be very happy with the 18MP of the 1D X sensor) but in light of the recent 36MP D800/E announcement (see Gordon's excellent report) and the price of the D800 already being a few cents less than $3,000 I'm left wondering if Canon have been wrong footed on this one?

Maybe the rumoured specifications are good but the names are wrong. What mileage does Canon get by using the name 5D X rather than, say, reviving the 3-series.

Will Canon split the 5-series and what do you reckon to those specifications in light of Nikon's D800/E?

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Ever since the 1D X was announced I felt there was space for two lower models of full frame bodies. One would be the 5D3, although if this comes to pass, both are still "5D".

If this 5D X happens under 3k street (whatever local currency unit), I'm definitely getting one. The rumours of the 22MP model are in part what influenced me to get the 5D2 now. I don't care about ISO-infinity performance as 6400 is enough for me already and every camera, including the D3s, will still degrade at ever high values. I want and can use more resolution more easily, and 45MP is right in my sweet spot because at the least it means I can crop equivalent to existing APS-C and beyond without losing resolution compared to what I have now.

One reason I heard repeated many a time against the 3D name is that in modern usage, it has a different implication (as in 3D images) which could lead to unnecessary confusion.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:42 pm 
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If you've seen the bickering among Nikonians about the D800 having 36MP you Canonites are going to have fun discussing "Who in the world needs 45MP". :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:02 pm 
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In a similar way that 36MP is like the 16MP DX sensor scaled up, 45MP is near enough the 18MP APS-C scaled up. That is justification enough for me.

A losing battle I know, but some people seem excessively obsessed with pixel level perfectness and lose sight of the bigger picture.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:28 pm 
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+1!

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