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 Post subject: Noise on 7D, my fault?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:46 pm 
Hi everyone!!! I`ve been shooting some pics with my new 7D. I come from a 450D and even if you think it is ridiculous, i think the 7D is noisier.

It makes no sense to me but im seeing way to much noise even at lower ISO.

With my 450D iso 800 was pretty good, don`t know if it was the noise reduction or what it was, but in my opinion images looked cleaner.

Here is a pic taken yesterday with the 7D. ISO was 640 and this is the Large fine jpeg that came out of the camera. The noise reduction is set to standart. No PP was done to the pic, NONE.

Anyone can tell me if this is normal noise or maybe im doing something wrong because again, i don`t remember seeing so much noise in my 450D.

Thank you everyone and look foward to your advices
Image


Edit: here is the URL if you want to see the image at 100%

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XX-2NS_AYTE/TRjQQ ... G_1812.jpg


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Location: The Netherlands
The 7D's NR is standard a bit low. Check the 7D review to see how it compares to the 50D. The 50D has standard a very strong NR.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:33 pm 
I agree with Ruben. The 450D is a consumer camera which will denoise images for you. The 7D is a (semi)professional model which will leave images in a more unprocessed state for the user to decide whether to keep the image for its sharpness or denoise it but get a slightly less sharp image. You can probably change this in your Jpeg settings.

Also, the 7D is shooting more megapixels remember so its likely to be noisier


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:38 pm 
thanks for the imput. In the uploaded pic the noise can`t be seen. But on 100% it is quite aparent! Any form to upload the whole pic?

So, you think puting NR to strong would be good?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:55 pm 
It depends what you want. For least noisy pictures, setting it to strong may be for you, but for the sharpest pictures, none may be the best option, you can always add it in post processing later.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:12 pm 
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Posts: 466
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I am rather certain that 450D and 7D has the same option here (turning off noise canceling) and I know both cameras have nearly identical noise cause I have done some samples with both of them.

(Only in RAW though, I don't mess with Canon jpeg cause I think it looks a bit terrible.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:52 pm 
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Location: bit east of Melbourne
that link is not showing a bigger picture. :)
I have had some noise creep in on a few shots taken as jpg, it seems to be caused more by the light I have taken photos in. Indoors and under artificial light or outside, but always under poor light, Iso is sufficiently low to not be the reason. I am guessing here, but its might be auto highlight optimiser kicking in. Or highlight Tone priority, not sure need to have a play.
Other than that I think it takes great shots in jpg with noise not an issue.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:36 pm 
Thanks everyone for all your thoughts!!!

So in summary you all recomend to stop using the noise reduction and do it later on PS?

I know you can`t see it on the pics. They are so small you can`t see noise in them but at 60%-100% is quite noticeable!

Anyway i can upload the whole picture?

Thanks all of you!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:06 am 
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Location: Taiwan / Sweden / Scotland
I tend to ignore NR, since it the photo gets less sharp and a bit more blurry.

But I stick with ISO 50 - 400 while photographing landscapes and such

iso 800 - 6400 while photographing sports and wildlife ^^


NR is always set on standard, dont want to loose the sharpness :p

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:06 am 
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That is what I do at least, all built in picture optimizing functions are turned off.

If you just supply us with a link to a full resolution picture would be great. =)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:56 am 
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never use high NR unless you don't wanted to shoot fast action. :)
or you will camera will stop shoot every 5 pic and process. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:46 am 
Hope this time you guys can see the whole thing. I uploaded it to a friend`s flickr account.

I was reading gordon`s review of the 7D and from his description, i can see that the 7D is quite loud in noise :p

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:48 am 
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Posts: 357
Your picture(s) are noiser than you expect because you are under exposing the scene. i.e. you shutter is too fast, or your aperture is too small or your ISO is too low.

If you look at the histogram of the picture the image data is all crammed to the left side[edit], meaning all the image data is primarily in the shadows.

Any image produced on any camera that has been underexposed will exhibit much greater noise than if shot with an exposure that pushes the image data to the right of the histogram without highlight clipping.

So before thinking you need to modify noise processing settings , it is best to obtain an optimal, properly exposed image (i.e. decrease shutter speed, increase aperture opening, increase ISO). That is a properly exposed picture will have a lot less visible noise.


Last edited by capital on Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:54 am 
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Location: UK
That shot is correctly exposed. You can't really increase it without clipping the red channel.

What you can try is external noise reduction tools. I use neat image myself, but there are also some other free ones. On a quick test on that image, the chroma noise reduction easily removes the coarse blotchy bits which gives the sky in particular a smoother look. The remaining fine noise is harder to deal with, and you have to balance the strength of noise removal with general image blurring and detail loss.

HDR might be another option for this type of shot.

And finally, does it matter? Not every pixel needs to be perfect, as long as at the output resolution you will finally use it looks good.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:38 am
Posts: 357
The shot presented has two stops available before clipping occurs.

As one can see the histogram is pushed to the left causing more noise than if the shot had been exposed to the right. i.e increasing exposure.

Image



Here is the shot if pushed 2.15 stops, only then does a very slight amount of red channel clipping occur.

Image

Thus the image can benefit from increasing the exposure to let in more light and reduce the noise.


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