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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:03 am 
I envy you :P


In a good and pacific way.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Location: Pella, IA, USA
"SoloRider - Looks like I will be trading in my 40D for a 7D and waiting a couple of years for the 5D3 to be released and its price to drop to sensible levels."

"SoloRider - I, for one, would probably have bought a 7D earlier rather than wait for what is now the 60D"

Nick, you have waited a year and the price of the 7D has dropped sufficiently now to sensible levels for you to make the upgrade. ...as the 7D will be around for some time to come, insert a "0" and regard your 7D as the 70D :wink:

Think about it, if Canon had released the $1100 60D as it stands and introduced the 7D into the 50D body as the 70D at say $1600 for example (midway between launch price of the 60D and the 7D replacement) would anyone buy it if you can get a 7D now for under $1500?

The 60D had to happen the way it did as the XXXD line is Canon's sub $1000 consumer line and the XXD needed an entry level D90 fighter above $1000.

...Gordon's "rant" has been through this already. :)

(BTW Gordon, your "rant" was pretty mild to some others I have seen :lol: )


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Location: Surrey, UK
Howzit,

So you are saying that Canon reacts purely to what Nikon is doing rather than setting its own agenda?

As Gordon's rant pointed out (and I have agreed with) is that the number on the front is irrelevant. It is the price/features combination that matters and the numbering system was just a guide.

What they have done, as Bob astutely puts it, is "replaced" a metal semi-pro oriented body with a plastic consumer oriented body at approximately the same price point. Hence, to my mind, the price/features balance has taken a dive towards an expensive consumer bracket - others may think differently.

The resulting 60D seems to be neither fish nor fowl. It is too expensive for the low-end consumer to move up to (at he moment at least) and too "consumer oriented" for the serious amateur/semi-pro

The 7D has a good price/features ratio, but at a price that is significantly higher than the normal mid-range Canon offering.

The upshot of all this is simply that somebody, such as myself, who wants to get a newer body has the choice of paying roughly the same as they did for their current body, but getting a 'less pro' item, or paying a lot more for a 'more pro' item.

The fact is that Canon have done it, and the results remain to be seen.....

Nick


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:13 pm 
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Nick, I'm saying that the 60D is not a replacement for the 50D but now the entry level camera into the XXD range - which puts it in line with the D90. (good move by Canon).

The XXXD price has remained constant since 2003 but the XXD line has been steadily dropping (and improving) - the two lines have converged in price and the 60D is where the confluence meets. If people can wrap their minds around a new starting position rather than a replacement then the 60D makes sense as the first of the XXD range starting above $1000.

So no, not a replacement but the +$1000 entry level camera into the XXD line - Maybe a 70D will be announced which will be the real 50D's successor that is similar to the current 7D when the 7D is replaced?!

...until then the upgrade from the 50D to the 7D is the way to go. The price-point is there now for the upgrade. Check out this article: http://canonfieldreviews.com/7d-1-weather-sealing/

(we have officially beaten this horse to death! :wink: )


Last edited by Howzit on Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:21 pm 
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Posts: 21
Location: Southern California
I'm curious, how many shooters (with older APS-C bodies; pre 7D) can honestly say they couldn't actually use the new features of the 60D?

Pros:
- Lighter weight, same basic xxD body/grip design
- Retains the quick control dial; not to sure about joystick integration...
- 18mp, ISO up to 12800
- Integrated flash transmitter/master
- Articulated highest res 3" screen to date
- New color metering
- 9 point AF all cross type
- Movie modes; even if just for experimenting...

Another question, I don't but do you all drop your gear on a regular basis? I mean is a Magnesium body with an engineering plastic cover that much different than an Aluminium body with same cover...other than the weight, feel in hand? Or is this all about one's status symbol "semi-pro"?

And, sorry, but if Canon feels/thinks it needs to trump the Nikon D90 to boast sales/revenue...so be it. As they continue to increase their revenue, widen their consumer base, steal customers from Nikon (or the other DSLR makers) they just invest more in new features, sensor technology, new glass design...and we benefit in the end.

For me, like many, budget is a reality. The 7D looks awesome, but other than using a tethered PC to give me low level and high level shooting angles...the only option I have is an Articulating screen. I have an old canon A95 that is fun to shoot with; yeah it has an articulating screen...fun being the optimal word!

And, my 40D still kicks some serious ass...in my dreams it's the 5D Mark x full-frame body that I hunger for. In the meantime if the buttons/dials are usable, the 60D will be my next body; after it's initial price drops! Note, Nikon is still stuck in 12mp land...at least Canon is pushing technology a bit (oh I'll get my arse kicked by the Nikonians for that remark..muhahah!)

Ultimately, getting out there, shooting everyday, enjoying ourselves, continuing to hone our creativity/skill sets and creating pleasing/stunning images is what's of import.

Hope I don't ruffle any feathers, I'm a newbie to this forum, not your average shooter; being disabled, just throwing my two cents out there for whatever it's worth...

And, I have a substantial investment in Canon glass, some at L level...I'm not really looking elsewhere; been a happy canon shooter since 1978.

Jerry

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Location: Surrey, UK
StillFingers,

I guess in the end it's horses for courses and down to individual priorities.

I am not interested in video - if I was I would buy a good HD camcorder.

I am not interested in a flip-out and tilt screen. If it is away from the camera body it is more likely to get broken. I hardly ever use the live view mode on my 40D.

The wireless flash transmitter would have been nice, but AFIK it only works with Canon Speedlites, so I would still need my radio transmitter for my studio strobes.

I do not regularly drop my camera, but it does get the odd knock at times of excitement. It only takes one good knock to find out how much a replacement plastic body is (I have a friend who did it - not telling who made the camera). I can tell you that he had a shock when the estimate came through!

Yes, certain points of the 60D are an improvement over the 60D. I am not interested in the "I have more megapixels than you" argument- take a look at the EOS 1D, until recently the (nearly) top of the range Canon. The hi-res screen and better focus system would be more useful.

As for your personal situation, the lighter weight and tilt screen are certainly an advantage, so I would suggest that the 60D is an ideal body for you. However, you are in a rather select group (good on you BTW!)

As I think has been ascertained however, it is not what I or a large number of mid-range Canon owners had expected or hoped for. Having said that,I am sure it will suit many people wishing to trade-up from entry-level DSLR's (when it comes down to its natural price point).

Nick


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Posts: 21
Location: Southern California
@ Nick

Well started, if it weren't for my disability I'd be upset at the backward steps of the 60D, they are disappointing.

Who knows, I may just wait for the 5D Mk III...full frame is where my heart really is...I still shoot with my EOS-3s :)

But then again, a new shinny toy isn't out of the question...

Cheers!

Jerry

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EOS-3(2) & EOS 40D (w/drives), EF-S 10-22, EF 17-40 f4L, EF 50 f1.4, EF 100 Macro, EF 70-200 f4L IS, EF 300 f4L IS, EF 1.4x Extender II, EF 12mm & 25mm Ext Tubes, EX 580 II(2), Bogen supports (tri, mono and super clamps, ball & tilt heads), Kata-84 & Domke Brick10 (storage), Domke F2 (Daily; original/1978)
Dell Latitude e6500, Lightroom, DXO & various plugins; Canon FD Collector - Fav kit, T-90 w/200mm f4 macro, ML-3 Ring Lite...Fuji Velvia 50 (film)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Aright here's the official news from canon where the 60d fall in place, it Continue the xxd line.(Replacing the EOS 50D)


http://www.canon.co.uk/About_Us/Press_Centre/Press_Releases/Consumer_News/Cameras_Accessories/EOS_60D_Press_Release.aspx

London, UK, 26th August 2010 - Canon today announces the latest addition to its world-famous EOS series of Digital SLR (DSLR) cameras – the new EOS 60D. Replacing the EOS 50D, the EOS 60D is designed for photographers who want to take their skills to the next level, offering high performance, a series of creative features, a Vari-angle LCD screen and enhanced ergonomics – empowering photography enthusiasts to capture outstanding stills and Full High Definition (HD) video for unique, creative results.

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Wake up canon or throw the towel in!!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Hmm. That looks suspiciously like the start of the full press release quoted in Gordon's initial post starting this thread. :P

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:32 pm 
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...and uses the phrase "Replacing the EOS 50D" which has stirred the hornet's nest. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:58 pm 
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"Hmm. That looks suspiciously like the start of the full press release quoted in Gordon's initial post starting this thread"

looks like an official canon website to me, which just justified what i was fearing. This press release states that it does replace the 50d, and in my book this camera is a step down. Yes more Megapixels and some added new Features but at the of what cost? The build, and a Feature that lets you fine tune your lenses. I think that we was getting beat up by some folks because of the name of the camera, and we was told its not going to replace the 50d. Nice to see that we was not just crying wolf. Maybe some folks will see what me and raw have been talking about the whole time.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:01 pm 
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"...and uses the phrase "Replacing the EOS 50D" which has stirred the hornet's nest"

Thats the whole point, it does and we feel it should not. After all the heat from others over this not going to replace the 50d, makes me want to go on a rant now.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:17 pm 
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AnArKi and RAW-1, do you do everything a press release tells you to?

Yes we know the press release says the 60D replaces the 50D (didn't we also publish it at the start of the thread?), but that doesn't mean you have to buy it and that there are no other options.

If you want to upgrade, you go for the model which best suits your requirements, which for most existing xxD owners will be the 7D.

I think this subject is repeating itself now. Can we move on? If you want to rant more about it, there are forums which really welcome that sort of thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:24 pm 
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ok lets look at what was said in the rant

"Come on guys, I can't believe so many people are getting upset over just a name. Who cares if the 'true successor' to the 50D doesn't have two digits? It doesn't matter!"


after reading the 1st post in this Canon EOS 60D - official thread, and it says that the 60d replaces the 50d that just told me that the 60d is the successor. If it was not then it would have read like the 7d did when it released, a new line.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:34 pm 
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"AnArKi and RAW-1, do you do everything a press release tells you to? "

i think that canon made this camera and they should know why they made it and where it should be placed. Its not like a 3rd party said that, if it was 3rd party i would not trust them. I just feel like the rant was uncalled for and by canon words we had made our point. I like your reviews and so on, but who do i trust more on what the 60d replaced? You or canon?


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