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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:04 pm 
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I think the loss of micro-adjustment (if it's definitely gone), is a mistake, but otherwise I don't see what the problem is. People who want to upgrade their semi-pro Canon continue to have a superb option in the form of the 7D - I've just spent a month with one in the field and it's an excellent body.

In the meantime, people who want a step-up from the entry-level models now have the 60D. Like popo says, the Nikon D90 has been one of the best-sellers in the market, and look at the specs: plastic body, penta-prism v/f, fairly quick continuous shooting, movie mode. The 60D is Canon's answer to that and I'd say it's a sensible reposition.

As for 50D owners looking for an upgrade, again, the 7D is the way to go. But while everyone is complaining that the 60D is slower and lacks the magnesium alloy body and AF micro-adjust, remember it DOES have a higher resolution sensor, some fantastic movie modes AND an articulated screen, which is also optimised for the 3:2 image shape. So it does have a number of benefits over the 50D which may suit some xxD owners looking to upgrade. And while it has dropped by 1fps, it's still pretty quick at shooting, and sufficiently fast for many people.

The reposition shouldn't come as too much of a surprise either given the specs of the 550D / T2i and the 7D. The 60D had to fit inbetween and the loss of AF micro-adjust aside (which I believe should now be on all DSLRs), I think Canon's done a good job of balancing out the features without encroaching on the market of the other two. Did 50D owners really think they'd bring out a camera just fractionally below the 7D? It was always going to sit inbetween.

As for actual performance, none of us can comment definitively until we've actually tested a final production sample. As for price, I again wouldn't comment until it's settled down and we can see where the street prices end up compared to others.


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 Post subject: 60D Price ??!!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:49 pm 
Just seen the release of the new 60D.

Have Canon lost the plot?

Plastic body, gimmicky flip LCD, gimmicky "in-camera editing" and a UK list price of £1099!! The US list price is $1099, and with the USD currently at approx. 1.55 to the pound that makes the camera 50%+ over priced. That is just obscene.

With the 7D able to be had for less than £1200 at the moment the decision is a no-brainer.

I have a 40D at the moment and am looking to add a full-frame body, in particular the 5D mk3 when it comes out (hopefully at Photokina next month), but if it is priced like this canon will not be getting my money.

I know this is a "RRP", but the companies advertising for pre-order are asking this price.

I am hoping that the dearth of 5D mk2 availability is due to running down of stocks before the mk3 release, but at this rate I will be sticking with my trusty 40D for some time yet.

Nick


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:08 pm 
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The exchange rate used by tech companies has always been close to $1=£1. We've been ripped off for a long time even if you take into consideration taxes and duty. Anyway, the pattern is quite normal so far. Pre-orders for any camera regardless of manufacturer has always been at silly prices, but give it a month or so after launch and it'll creep down to a more reasonable level.

When the 5D3 does eventually come out, you can be sure it'll be significantly more than the 5D2 is at the time. And I don't see the 5D2 shifting down any...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:41 pm 
Persoanlly I think that If the price is right the 60D can be a very good camera.

To be honest I do like the idea of a magnesium alloy body but I doubt it will ever come in handy because chances are that if I bash my camera that much I'll end up breaking something else sooner than later. A plastic weather sealed body however could be more handy.

Also, plastics these days are pretty strong but until I feel a 60D in my hands I can't really say how strong or weak it is. I doubt I'll be disappointed though. My keayboard is made out of plastic and I have rammed it a few times after what I thought where unfair kills on TF2. :lol:

Micro AF adjusting lack was a bummer but hopefully a firmware update can solve it.

ALSO: Canon releasing this camera with the DIGICIV might mean the DIGIC V is not ready and consequently the 1DS MK4 won't be released this year. Just a thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Hi SoloRider,

May I wish you a warm welcome to the CameraLabs community.

I'd be surprised if Canon launch a 5D3 this year but it won't take long to prove me wrong. :lol:

I've a lot of sympathy with you regarding SRP here in Europe but don't forget the iniquities of VAT when you look at the exchange rate. Mind you, just to rub salt in the wound our North American friends have benefited from a number of rebate promotions on lenses in the last year or two which haven't been matched over here. :(

When the dust settles it will be interesting to see how many 40D/50D owners choose the 60D over the 7D. My guess is that not many will unless the 60D price falls rapidly and that's probably exactly how Canon have planned it by repositioning the future xxD models closer to the xxxD/Rebel line.

Bob.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:06 am 
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thelostswede wrote:
I have Class 4 cards that are faster than Class 6 cards which makes no sense at all.


It makes perfect sense because the "class" is a guaranteed minimum speed; it says absolutely nothing about the maximum speed. That's why you see some cards--e.g. SanDisk--also list a maximum speed--e.g. 30 mb/sec--in addition to the "class".

As to the 60D, as others have said, I'm very curious to see where the street price ends up, especially relative to the 550D/T2i, around the holidays.

Mark


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:02 am 
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At least it still has the Direct Print Button! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:41 am 
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The more I think of it, maybe it's not generating much interest with us because we already have dSLRs. I don't think it's good enough for me to upgrade from my T2i. If I were a new buyer, though, maybe, it'd at least be worth taking a better look at that swivel screen in action.

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 Post subject: canon flops out with 60d
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:46 am 
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well if your wanting and amateur camera the 60d right on time for the rebel lovers,i'm very disappointed with canon 60d(more like a step down to amateur camera) a big let down i guess the last semipro camera for the xxd was the 50d.

1 question how did this camera earn the xxd, i could see if they called it a t100. very bad move by canon, i'm starting to wounder if bill gates owns part of canon (ok vista here let sell it to them even though it not a solid os we need money and they don't know any better+ they will need to upgrade,kinda like you need L lens to get new ,DSLR to even take a good picture. ok year 1/2 later now they say here windows 7 and people run out and buy it,but the whole time on the 97th floor the big wigs are smoking $10 cigars and laughing how they going to make another 10+ mill.kinda like i feel about canon right now.

aright what happen to canon ? ill tell you what happen it a target for all the lower in cameras rebel, power shot,(wow) what happen to us semipro people. well they don't sell enough semipro cameras.(here we go 50d lot of people pass on this 1 no upgrade on af, not really any much better then the 40d)

now that the 50d not a big seller canon like time to introduce our 7d,and she a real piece of work has great build all the bell's whistle's.and lets don't forget the great video.probably the best think on the 7d but she a love and hate camera you love her for build,video,af,and the rest of the bells and whistle's but at the end all come's down the the picture quality just fall's short.

now let look a nikon,take the d300 built better then the 7d with 51 af points 2 years older and still has almost all 7d's bell's whistle's and now nikon up coming camera will be d400. (think it's just a rumor look on ebay under battery's they list for d400) now with that said what canon going to do release a 8d probably,not for awhile 7d need to make money. + us semipro canon people only have 2 camera's to pick from 50d or 7d. so this is where nikon start the killing.

I have a question for Gordon Laing the review you gave on the d700 Scored 89% and the 5d mark II Scored 91%, doesn't seem fair ive shot both camera's and the picture from the d700 is as clean or if not cleaner then 5d mark II. the build of the d700 wins hand down not to say af on the 5D mark II BITE'S.

well ive stuck with canon now for 3 years and still don't have body worth talking about,i guess the old 5d and the 40d was 2 of the best camera canon made for it time for it's prize range.

what should i do sorry canon time to buy nikon because nikon loves it's people. buy nikon and live happily ever after :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:12 am 
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Specs of the camera looks good to me and best to judge on the price when it has been out for a while, as suggested by other posters.

I can certianly see where the new screen will come in handy. On amazon the 50d is half the price of 7d. I am sure the price will go down to something similar.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:18 am 
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RAW 1, welcome to the forums and that's one serious 1st post.

It sounds like you're after pixel peeping cleanness, which is an area Nikon does seem to have gone after. Personally I don't see anything wrong with the 18MP sensor. I'd go as far as to say it is the best Canon APS-C size sensor ever, although you might have to use it a little differently compared to the days of MP starvation. As mentioned previously in the thread, the 60D does make sense for its position in every way except one, the name.

Different people have different needs. If you think Nikon would suit your needs better, then make the switch. At the risk of stating the obvious, make sure you have considered beyond the body.

And while I don't doubt the D400 isn't far off (the D300s is still quite young), I wouldn't use ebay listings as a reference!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:06 pm 
Thanks for the welcome Bob/all.

In the past I have had a few exchanges with Gordon when he was involved in the sadly missed PCW magazine as we have many of the same interests, which is how I found this site.

As regards the 60D price, I do accept the issue with UK VAT and that is only going to get worse when it goes up to 20% next year. This does not account for the 50%+ mark-up. Some US states have very little if any sales tax to add to their prices. The UK prices are simply a rip-off.

I am in the lucky position of visiting the USA regularly and would have the opportunity to buy there if required, but I resent being "milked" in the UK.

Nobody in their right mind would buy a 60D at full price with the 7D less than £100 more in the shops. Yes the 60D will come down in price- it will have to when Canon and the dealers realise nobody is buying them!

The camera itself seems to be more in the xxxD consumer mould than the xxD "prosumer" bracket. The smaller, lighter plastic body all shout "budget" to me. The gimmicks of flip-out LCD, in-camera editing and special effects all point to it being targeted at the section of the market that is impressed by such froth, rather than the serious photographer who is mainly concerned with image quality and ruggedness.

Yet, Canon have released it at a price that is closer to its professional-grade big brother the 7D. A consumer-styled camera at a professional price?! In the midst of the deepest world economic depression since WWII?

Yes. the price will drop and all the suppliers will be shouting about saving $/£400 when it hits a sensible price, but wouldn't it have been better to release at a sensible price in the first place and actually make some sales?

At one point | toyed with the idea of skipping a generation (the 50D) and possibly trading in my 40D for the 50D's successor. There is no way I would change my 40D for this camera as I feel it would be an expensive retrograde step. I have no need for the video functions.

Based on this release I am sure the 5D3 will be priced at silly money when it comes out but will fall, too, just as the 5D2 did. I may just end up getting a reconditioned 5D2 until the 5D3 reaches a sensible price.

As I understand it, the 5D3 was due out in a year (autumn 2011) but there have been lots of rumours of this being moved up to the end of this year. If Photokina doesn't produce the goods I may have a long wait :(

Nick


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:09 pm 
Before the 7D a semipro DSLR like the 50D made sense.

The 7D is now the semi pro.... just a little more pro. If it's price is too high for you then get the 60D (or save up or go to another company) which still has a xxD line shutter, xxD functions and a very similar sensor + video.


Where there used to be 2 steps (rebel->xxD->5D) canon made 3 (rebel->xxD->7D->5D). In my opinion this is better because they can now satisfy more people's demands. As long as they don't go down the sony route and release 5 or six APS-C cameras... that's just confusing.

Also, with the current economic state of affairs I think a cheaper xxD body can prove to be a good move from canon.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:47 pm 
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In my opinion the 60D is no semi pro camera. The 50D was however, but it's clean Canon want to reach more (beginners/enthousiasts) with the 60D than they would with the 50D.
It's just the bigger brother of the 550D, while the 7D is the biggest one, and the 50D is on retiring, while it's still a semi pro camera.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Nick, the pricing at this launch is no different than any other DSLR launch in the UK of recent years. They've always opened at RRP and slowly drift down once availability filters through. It happened to the 7D, the 50D, the 550D, and it is not limited to Canon either, with other brands doing exactly the same.

Not being in the trade, I couldn't give a definitive reason for this, but I'd guess it is in part supply and demand. The first ones will go to those with more money than sense and who refuse to wait. As supply grows, the competition between dealers will bring the price down to more reasonable levels. I suspect there's also some "understanding" with the manufacturers here, as everyone is listing at RRP, but if you look around the dealers many of them are offering not insignificant extra items bundled into the RRP selling point. It is like they can't lower the price initially, so they offer additional value items to make their offering more tempting from others.

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