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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:57 pm 
Orsan Kart wrote:
this is what the 5dmkii should have been if it had a full frame sensor..


I agree, this body (perhaps a little bit bigger) with a 18MP, or even 16MP FF sensor would have been a sweet camera!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:10 pm 
Just think of what the 5D mk III will be like in a few years time ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:19 pm 
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this is true!!


Though my 5d still rocks :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Completely new
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:21 pm 
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kassie wrote:
...my question is how far down do prices typically drop after the announcement of a new model? Thanks!

Hi kassie,

May I offer you a warm welcome to the CameraLabs forum.

In the States the EOS 50D body is available for about $1000 compared to an SRP if $1999.

Bob.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:22 pm 
hmm so far I'm... well... not quite sure about all those sample pictures. I'm not too impressed by the high ISO performance - it seems to be very similar, if not slightly worse than the 50D, allthough one must confess that a similar noise per pixel would still be pretty impressive at 18MP.

We're gonna have to wait and see if the best EF-S lenses can keep up with such a high pixel density (17-55mm, 10-22mm as far as I'm concerned ;) ) If they do, and the camera really provides superior detail at low ISOs, I'll think about getting one... otherwise, I'll just save and get a 5D2 eventually :/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:23 pm 
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DD_nVidia wrote:
...not one lens canon sells can out perform the density of the sensor...

¿Qué? :? Like to share your source for that one? I think the PhotoZone charts are potentially misleading if that's what you are going by. For example the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM achieves less than the theoretical maximum LW/PH of 2150 topping out at 2014 when tested on an EOS 350D but when tested on a EOS 50D it tops out at 2527, a figure that's also below the theoretical maximum of 2700. It's interesting to note that in both cases the achieved figure is about 93.6% of the theoretical maximum figure quoted. That tells me that the theoretical maximum figure is unrealistic.

It's also interesting (to me, anyway :lol:) to compare the figures at all apertures for that lens on the two bodies as the lens does better on the 50D across the board. The imponderable is, of course, the strength of the anti-aliasing filter. But, that said, my guess is that the best of Canon's zooms and maybe even many of their primes will make good use of the 7D sensor if used at f/5.6. Just a guess, though, as I don't believe any of these lenses have been publicly reviewed on digital sensors with such tiny pixels.

Bob.

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Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:25 pm 
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DDnV - obviously you're not the target audience for this camera, but from my perspective (BIF/wildlife) it is spot on. The only other possible choices being possibly the old and expensive 1D3 or Nikon D300 and above.

I don't have strong precognition abilities, and I do not have more than a blink of the eye to focus, AF or MF. Having a beefed up AF is a major deal in this scenario.

For the target audience, a FF sensor doesn't deliver much benefit for the cost. The wider FoV means needing even longer telephotos which are expensive enough already on the top end, which then gives you shallower DoF to make things worse.

18MP is diffraction limited above f/5.6, and in action scenarios lenses more often than not are used wide open to help keep a fast shutter, so no great loss there. Extremely high ISO isn't really needed in this application either, 1600 is decent enough in most situations and a usable 3200 is a bonus.

The 7D is clearly attacking the D300 level space. If you want a FF equivalent, you'll have to wait for the D700 attack to be launched, where I'll stick my neck out and suggest the might be the 1D4 with a bump up to FF compared to the 1D3.

If the above doesn't sound like how you shoot, then simply the 7D wasn't ever intended to be the camera for you. Find the one that really is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:26 pm 
The new 7D looks good on paper – looking forward to Gordon's review.

I echo Bob's and others who have commented on the UK price – it is nothing short of extortionate so should I get one it will once the camera has been out a few months as by then the price madness will hopefully of chilled.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:32 pm 
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DD_nVidia wrote:
DP-Paris - mate you've got that one a bit wrong... the 1D and 1Ds have NOTHING in common... they're totally different cameras haha. If anything the 1DsMk(X)-5DMk(X) share a relationship and the 1DMk(X)-7DMk(X) share a relationship.

TBH though, I personally think its a bad move. I think everything should be going to full frame. The sample images are pretty soft, and not one lens canon sells can out perform the density of the sensor. I'd have rathered a 12-14MP FF with 5FPS 14bit with all the nice low light capabilities. Cleaner high ISO's would go down a treat with people who shoot gigs, weddings etc. and would have made a perfect modern backup to a 5DMkII.

Alas, it was not as I hoped. Looks like I'm still ordering a 1DsMkIV 8)

God people care about AF Points? Manual focus or center point. I wouldn't trust any cameras AF system on auto. None are perfectly, fortunately my vision is pretty darn good, and last I checked, I had the final say on what I focused on. So if the center point can't get it, I Manual Focus it. Saying that, I rarely have to.

You should all be making more of a fuss about Dynamic Range, 14bit vs. 16bit (instead of Nikon who are clinging to 12bit for some god forsaken reason!) and better lenses! The AF system or your creativity are both wasted if the Image quality isnt perfect!


I think you misunderstood my point. I was not saying they have things in common, rather the 1D is the sport model to the 1Ds and the 7D is the sport model to the 5D.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:55 pm 
DD_nVidia wrote:
TBH though, I personally think its a bad move. I think everything should be going to full frame...


But then they would be ignoring a *huge* installed base of EF-S users.


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 Post subject: Re: Completely new
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:00 pm 
kassie wrote:
Hi, All,
I have the Canon PS G10 (love it) but of course, it makes me really want a DLSR. I've been looking at the 50D, but now I see this new Canon which may be a better bet.
I want something that I can grow with-something challenging -and this may be it. I'll wait for the comparative reviews, as I don't have the cash right now, :roll:
But, my question is how far down do prices typically drop after the announcement of a new model? Thanks!


Prices can drop several hundred dollars but don't expect that for at least a year. the 5D mk II hasn't dropped since its release and its back-ordered. so good luck getting your hands on this camera.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:58 pm 
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JakeOConnell wrote:
I think we can safley redefine canon's range now.

XXXD is the Consumer always will be
XXD - will be the Advanced Amateur Range
7D - Prosumer
5d/mkII - prosumer/semi-pro
1d - pro


I think we can put the 7D, 5D MII, 1D, and 1Ds series in the semi-pro/ pro category. It really all depends on how you want to use each one.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:00 pm 
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Orsan Kart wrote:
this is what the 5dmkii should have been if it had a full frame sensor..
]

Lol seriously. I was thinking the same thing. But then a camera like that would be too beastly...

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 Post subject: Re: Completely new
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:50 am 
Tomis wrote:
kassie wrote:
Hi, All,
I have the Canon PS G10 (love it) but of course, it makes me really want a DLSR. I've been looking at the 50D, but now I see this new Canon which may be a better bet.
I want something that I can grow with-something challenging -and this may be it. I'll wait for the comparative reviews, as I don't have the cash right now, :roll:
But, my question is how far down do prices typically drop after the announcement of a new model? Thanks!


Prices can drop several hundred dollars but don't expect that for at least a year. the 5D mk II hasn't dropped since its release and its back-ordered. so good luck getting your hands on this camera.


I'd be looking to buy next spring most likely, whether it drops in price or not. "good luck getting your hands on this camera"? I understand there'll be a demand for it. No need to be snippy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:51 am 
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EF-S should die, along with cropped sensors. Economies of scale, more FF sensors they make the cheaper they'll be to produce as the volume goes up.

I'm just bitter about the 24p mode. This cameras great for who its intended for. I wish they'd hurry up and announce their other toys :twisted:

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