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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:00 pm 
Hi Guys,

I have decided on buying Canon 400D after thinking a lot about 40D. I had read somewhere in this forum that the image quality is not that different from 400D and other extra features mainly like 6fps and live view really does not mean much to me as I am a newbie in SLR's and am not buying for any action photography (Live view would be helpful like in compact digi cams)..

Another main reason for deciding 400D is "Buy good camera and a good lens".. So this theory suits my budget :-)

Could you please suggest me:

1) Should I go for 400D body only or go for 18-55 kit?
2) Which is the best Canon all rounder budget lens? Right now I don't have any particular reason in mind like wildlife, landscape etc. Just want to get started with a good lens.

Please suggest..

Also could you please give me your view on Hi Digital and AJPurdy sellers as they have some excellent package deals.

Thanks,
Harry


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:16 pm 
hi Harry,

Although I got my 400D with the 18-55 kit lens, many more experienced photographers may suggest getting the body with a 50mm f/1.8 or f/1.4 which is going to provide very good image quality, while allowing you to improve your technique. There may be different opinions on this issue however. I have a 50mm f1/4. on order at the moment and can't wait.

Many also go with the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM zoom lens which offers a very useful focal range and can provide good image quality.
I have been happy with mine, although may consider a 17-40 f/4 L lens for much better build & image quality.

I can't comment on Hi Digital and AJPurdy unfortunately.

Hope this helps :-)

Roland


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 Post subject: 400D lens upgrade
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:46 pm 
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Hi Harry,

I deleted your post in the Buying a New Camera forum as it was a copy of your post here and had not attracted any replies. As your question is specific to Canon you will get the best answers in the Canon forum and I thought it best to avoid duplication. I hope you don't mind. :wink:

The 400D is an excellent choice. I had mine for a year before upgrading to the 40D. The 40D has a great deal going for it but, as you have noted, by opting for the 400D you give yourself more options, budget wise, in your choice of lens.

As you have realised, the 18-55 kit lens is fine but there are better, albeit more expensive, options out there. Have you read Gordon's article Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi kit lens upgrade group test? There's some excellent advice there. That said, I bought an EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM lens with my 400D last year and haven't regretted it. If budget permits have a look at Gordon's review (or his 40D review which was done with the 24-105). Another possibility, though I haven't seen any tests yet, is the new EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS kit lens with Image Stabilisation as the headline feature.

If you can, I would suggest considering buying the 400D with the kit lens even if you don't use it. The reason is simply that the price difference isn't all that big and if you decide to upgrade the camera body in a year or two you might find it easier to sell the 400D if you can offer it with a lens.

I can't offer you advice on specific traders but please consider the Partner and Affiliate stores and help support the site. If you go elsewhere then you can always check ResellerRatings.com. In any event, in the UK the distance selling regulations mean you are pretty well protected, especially if you pay by credit card.

By the way, don't forget that Canon have a cashback offer on until the end of the year. £50 on the 400D (or 40D) body, £40 for the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM, £70 for the EF 17-40mm f/4L USM, £20 for the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM and £35 for the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM.

Good luck with your choices. Let us know how you get on.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:54 am 
Hi Bob/Roland,

Thanks for your valuable suggestions.

Bob, I think you did the right thing by removing it from the other post as it makes sense to keep this query in Canon post :-)

I will keep an eye on the suggested lenses and pick it up in case in good deals come in for XMas or New Year (on top of canon refund)..

Any more suggestions then please do reply to my query..

THANKS,

HARPAL


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:23 pm 
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harryp wrote:
Bob, I think you did the right thing by removing it from the other post as it makes sense to keep this query in Canon post :-)

Phew, what a relief. You had the dubious honour of composing the first post that I deleted! :evil:

If you have any questions there are lots of knowledgeable guys here on the forum who are willing to share their experiences.

By the way, a belated and very warm welcome to the Camera Labs forums. 8)

Bob.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:02 pm 
Hi Harry

As a (short-term) owner of both the 400D and the 40D, I may be of some help too.

Camera: I agree with you about the 400D: good IQ in relation to 40D. Issues to consider:
1. Price. at the moment, the 400D is going quite cheap, in Australia at least. Thus, a good bargain, I think. It also might indicate that a new model might be coming soon. It might have live view and DIGI III processor, maybe even a 3" screen. Although the 400D is good, I would suggest you wait if you can, because it looks like you might be buying the 400D at the end of its cycle if you buy now. Please bear in mind that I cannot substantiate these claims, nor do I claim them to be right, merely a feeling I have after numerous readings on the web. Speculations only...
2. Size. The 40D is bigger than the 400D. For example, for me, this was an issue. I like smaller, nimbler cameras, but this is a personal preference. Thus, to me, advantage 400D.
3. Longevity/resale value. Advantage 40D. Just been released, latest everything...
4. Ease of use/ergonomics. Advantage 40D, in my opinion. For example, on the 40D, you can use both the click wheel next to shutter and scroll wheel with you thumb to change parameters. Not so with 400D. Another thing is the viewer. Much bigger and brighter on the 40D, thus nicer to compose your shots. Live view is also great. for example, when using a tripod, you can really compose your shots, see how your settings actually turn out (e.g. the screen will darken if you use too low an aperture - great feedback). Also, better grip - might be a issue if using a bigger and heavier lens on the 400D.

Lens: see Gordon's review for best advise. I had initially the 17-85 IS USM lens - aka part of the "enthusiast kit". Did not like its build quality one bit, personally. Plastic-on-plastic grinding, felt cheap, and it's actually not that cheap... Upgraded to the "L"-series lens: the 24-105mm: IS USM. Great built-quality, image-stabilized. Consensus is that the L-series 24-70mm f2.8 is a superior lens - faster too - but it does not have image stabilization. I returned my 24-105mm, partly because it had a speck of dust inside the lens assembly that was evident in the viewer - quality control issue?... Morale: check your lens straight away after you buy it by un-focussing whilst looking at the blue sky or a white surface. Any defects will show up. Downside of the "L" series" : price. Advantage of L-series lens: Image quality (especially), nicer build and the possibility to use them on Canon bodies that would otherwise not accept the EFS-series lenses. To me, an EFS lens is, thus, a short-sighted investment.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Nice concise summary of your experience, Ant1!

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 Post subject: Get the kit
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:56 pm 
For first-time DSLR buyers, the 400D/18-55 kit is a great deal. $80 extra or something like that? It's a steal!

Once you get familiar with the focal lengths and lens speed you'd like, you can better estimate what kind of higher end lens to buy. If you only shoot between 28-55, maybe a 28-135 IS or 28-70 is best. If you only shoot between 18-40, maybe a 17-40. It's up to you, but spending $80 now is a small price to pay in finding out what you might want in the future.

Also, if you'd like to find out how you feel about switching lenses/using primes, buy the 50mm f/1.8. It's ~$60 and probably the best lens at its price on any system (Nikon, Canon, Pentax, etc).

Have fun, the 400D is a great camera.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:13 am 
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I'd agree - the kit lenes are so cheap they're good to have as a backup or to improve the sales value of your DSLR should you sell it later.

Gordon

PS - Jimmy2times - you a Goodfellas fan by any chance? "I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers"!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:24 am 
Gordon Laing wrote:
PS - Jimmy2times - you a Goodfellas fan by any chance? "I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers"!


You got it!

BTW, great site Gordon! Very informative. Also, you live in one of the best locales in the world for outdoor photographic tests :) Keep your reviews coming.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:52 am 
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Cheers Jimmy, it sure is a nice place to be! And the reviews certainly will keep coming...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:26 am 
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Oh, and btw, jimmy2times: Welcome to the Camera Labs forum!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:14 pm 
Hi,

Ant1: THANKS A TON for taking out time and replying in detail. I appreciate it. You have a point but I am a bit tight in budget hence have more or less decided to go in for 400D with 17-85 IS USM lens as the reviews and pic quality is great. I know that you have suggested against it but I cannot afford L series or 24-105 lens. If I was not a beginner then may be I would have waited and saved a bit more and then .... I love photography and hope that my love for it grows with time and experience. Last thing I want is that I go for a costly camera with L series lens and then later discover that it was just a temp fascination like getting attracted to a girl in teens :-) and never wanted to marry...oh damn now I am talking non sense....

Also I would love to wait for 450D but that would be costly compared to 400D so to start with I think I will stick with it and a lens with IS and USM :-) If any of you can suggest me a better lens than 17-85 IS USM in tamron, sigma or canon please do...I will really appreciate it..

Also THANKS A LOT to Gordon and jimmy2times for your feedback and suggestions..

THANKS,
HARRY


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:55 am 
Sorry, when I said "If any of you can suggest me a better lens than 17-85 IS USM in tamron, sigma or canon please do...I will really appreciate it.. "

I meant that any better lens in same price range :-)

Thanks..


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