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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:13 pm 
Ah...what the heck...Here is a quick sample of high ISO on G9 and Noise Ninja (sorry for the total lack of composition of photo...):

This shot was taken with no flash, at 1600 ISO on G9 (a no-go zone...)
Image

This is the cleaned up shot with Noise Ninja. I just got the s/w, so I'm sure I haven't got the best out of it yet:
Image


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 Post subject: .
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:56 pm 
What a difference! Well I'm sold on that program!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:13 am 
I'm sold too !

Those company should pay someone for promoting it here ! :lol:


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 Post subject: A650
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:49 am 
Since the A650 was mentioned, and since I haven't seen reference anywhere else here; the Canon A650's that have a serial number with a zero as the fifth digit have been recalled. They suffer from a light leak. See Canon -- sorry, that's all I know.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:34 am 
DavidL wrote:
I'm sold too !

Those company should pay someone for promoting it here ! :lol:


Yes, but that ain't me, David, I can assure you of that! What I wanted to point out, is that there is photographic solution that offers the flexibility of shooting at higher ISO for those who have a G9 (and other makes too). To me, one of the main disadvantages of not having an SLR is that they are much better at higher ISO than smaller-sensor p&s cameras - like the G9. Thus, it seems to me that programs such as NN - and there might be others, I don't know - offer a workable solution, because the G9 is so close feature-wise to an SLR. Well, at least, maybe the closest there is among the p&s cameras. It's a workable solution because you can extend the usability of your p&s to go beyond its inherent ISO limitations. As I said, with this software it's the closest I am to a mini-SLR, in my opinion.

What I really miss on the G9? Bulb night shooting, for one. The G9 is limited to 15 sec. Even the Pana. TZ3, which I had earlier, could shoot for 60sec. Another thing I miss is the possibility to adjust +/- exposure in manual mode on the G9. You can do that in other modes, but not in manual mode - bizarre... these would be the two main points for me. But otherwise, totally happy.

I just don't understand why companies like Canon don't make a camera like the G9, but the best they could make it: 2.8 constant aperture, "L"-quality lens, bigger sensor, etc. I, for one, would pay SLR-price for it. No problem, because the smaller, the better, for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:43 pm 
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I just don't understand why companies like Canon don't make a camera like the G9, but the best they could make it: 2.8 constant aperture, "L"-quality lens, bigger sensor, etc. I, for one, would pay SLR-price for it. No problem, because the smaller, the better, for me.


that's a good point. but I think if this camera is not going to perform as fast as a DSLR, it won't be worth more than 400. Unless they charge 800 and make an actual compact with all the virtues of the DSLR, minus the size and weight, or it won't be a success. Pro1 was nice, but it works at a snail's pace, G9 upgrades it to a turtle's... a 450 dollar dslr shoots many times faster than the G9. ;) S

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:29 pm 
Also, the super-zooms are in the G9s price range. The Panasonic FZ50 is a very nice camera, and the S5-IS is cheaper.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:22 pm 
BrianS wrote:
Also, the super-zooms are in the G9s price range. The Panasonic FZ50 is a very nice camera, and the S5-IS is cheaper.


That's it, isn't it: they are all kind of the same to a certain extent. What sold me with the G9 was the rotary ISO wheel and the way you can change aperture or shutter speed. It made me feel like I could have manual control in a very user-friendly manner. That, plus Canon's reputation in general. But other people might prefer the Panasonic FZ50, like Brian mentioned.

But what would be the main feature that would distinguish a camera such as the G9 from the rest, were it to come on the market? I mean, Olympus, Fuji, etc bring longer and longer zooms, but, although enticing, it's not the feature I want. I would be happy with half the zoom of the super-zooms, but give me Image Q. If one feature would make the difference - if you could only have one thing - that would be it for me. Make the G9 with the 400D sensor, and leave everything else the way it is. Add to the G9's lens an "L" marking, surround the outer lens with a red band - like the rest of the L-serie lenses to give it some air of quality (with quality included, of course, not just for show), and you got me good, Canon. Sensor and hi-quality lens, packed in the G9. Oh yeah... That's when one could not mention other brands, like the FZ50, because there would be a real difference, whereas now it's more subjective rather than a objective choice.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:30 pm 
SHIVA wrote:
Quote:
that's a good point. but I think if this camera is not going to perform as fast as a DSLR, it won't be worth more than 400.... S


Good point too, Shiva, but If I had a choice between paying the same price for a 400D and a G9+ with the 400D sensor and a better lens, I would buy the G9+: High pocketability factor + quality.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:46 pm 
I think you've hit on it Ant1: Size. It's a little bigger than the A-series, but not a hulking DSLR.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:24 pm 
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You could put a physically bigger sensor in there, but you'd need a completely different lens, and I'm not sure it would all squeeze into the same sized body. But yes, I DO think there's a market for a high-end compact with uncompromised IQ. I think enthusiasts would be willing to pay more than the price of a budget DSLR for it, but then I haven't conducted the market research! I think all those Leica owners are a case in point though...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:43 pm 
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this is becoming a good thread.

as gordon mentions, the lens on these small cams relates directly to the sensor. the smaller the sensor the longer zoom can be tagged on. that's why all superzooms use 1/2.5 sensors.

if you place a APS-C chip from the Canon 400D series into a compact body, you may only be able to attach a lens with a very limited zoom range, such as 35-50 or only a fixed lens, such as the one used by Sigma DP1, but as gordon said, you then compromise the compact body, as you'd need a larger size lens. there are sensor/lens limitations in creating compact, pocketable cams. I understand them, but there should be no limitation in camera performance. they intentionally cripple a digicam's performance so they can sell more DSLR. this I don't agree with.

I don't mind the new 1/1.7 sensor at all, I just want them to give us a cam that shoots as fast as a DSLR.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:04 pm 
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I think the problem is the designers want to produce such a camera, but marketing tell them they need to sell to a bigger audience, so the concept gets watered down into an average product which is often too specialist for beginners, but not specialist enough for enthusiasts. So sales are average and the company considers dropping the product line altogether - as indeed happened to the G-series for a while.

You can see their reasoning - the 400D and budget DSLRs in general are big sellers and hopefully will also sell a few lenses and accesories later, while compacts still appeal to beginners. So why rock the boat or cinfuse the market with a high-end compact?

But speak to any enthusiast and they'll tell you they'll happily pay top dollar for a high-end compact with excellent performance. I just think with so many compacts in their range that Canon could reposition the G-series (or create a new brand) without affecting the other products or alienating exsiting customers. I suspect it will never happen from them though and we'll just have to watch companies like Leica carefully...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:39 am 
Any chance of a shoot-out between the G9 and the Ricoh Caplio GX100?
The Ricoh would have the edge in user interface and controls (photocentric design rather than the G9's retro over usability approach), macro shooting, battery life (with option of AAAs), distortion free wide-angle and continuous shooting.
Really, I'm more exited by new cameras around the corner that will use the new Sony's IMX017CQE CMOS sensor - the first coming from Casio.
60fps continuous shooting (I'm not kidding!) at full resolution is pretty exciting but the fact that resolution will be limited the six megapixels and the fact that it is a CMOS, is even more encouraging for the possibility of low noise, in compacts, we have all been asking for.
Possibly bad news is that Fujifilm's F31fd may be the last of the low noise compacts that Fuji will make as early reports of F50fd seem to indicate that, as feared, the move to 12 megapixels has had a negative effect the picture quality.
I also think that the G10 will have a good chance of sporting OLED screen technology, be it flip or not!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:25 am 
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I just think with so many compacts in their range that Canon could reposition the G-series (or create a new brand) without affecting the other products or alienating exsiting customers. I suspect it will never happen from them though and we'll just have to watch companies like Leica carefully...


good points, but I think Leica cameras are a joke. they way they sold out their brand by rebadging panasonics and selling them for 35% more in price is simply appalling. they should stick to lens design and get out of camera business all together, leave a little dignity for the heritage of their brand. I have a 1950s Leica IIIf, that is in perfect working condition, that I just use as decoration. I like the brand and I hate to see it gets cheapened in this way.

but yes, I think Panasonic can make the ultimate digicam. They are so aggressive in their designs, they overload them with every feature possible, and that's why we even talk about them. they make good stuff.

I am disappointed in Sony. I used to like them but now I think they simply don't know the photography business, but they know consumers. I think they figured serious photographers are flocking to Canon and Lumix, so they might as well just make cool consumer toys.

Olympus is another disappointment, so is Nikon. Oly during their hay days of the Z5050 were a serious contender, now they are not popular with consumers at all, they way Canon and Sony are.

Nikon I don't get. They are just getting great with their DSLRs, but pay little attention to their digicam market. They have lost my respect. If I run a camera company, I make sure all the cameras that I put out are above average, like Canon and Pana. Nikon seems to only focus on the DSLRs and are basically losing the digicam market. No respect for them.

This is just my opinion, but we are left with Canon and Panasonic with Leica lenses to provide above average to excellent point and shoot cams. I just hope that one them makes a $600 pocketable digicam that will delight the serious shooter. G9 is so damn close, if it was a little faster, it would be the ultimate, but so far it's the best we got in this category...

please excuse the rant! I am just an enthusiast... :) S

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