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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:10 pm 
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0eyvind wrote:
Hi again
I was just wondering if you were planning on reviewing the Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM? And maybe compare it to Tamron's, because the Sigma is the lens i'm currently sacing for.
And sometimes i get unsecure which one is superior.
At the mo I'm not inclined to test the Sigma, as
(1) there is a not so overwhelming test at photozone
(2) You read Christian-NRW's remark on that lens?!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:12 pm 
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Hi Christian-NRW,
nice to hear from your experiences with that lens. Once again I fear, that Tamron is distributing QC-selected copies of this lens to fairs and review partners but they still flunk at the quality control department when delivering to "Joe Six-Pack" and "Hockey Mum" :(
That's a pity as it seems that this lens could be capable of some great IQ...

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Last edited by Thomas on Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:15 pm 
Thomas wrote:
0eyvind wrote:
Hi again
I was just wondering if you were planning on reviewing the Sigma 70-200 2.8 HSM? And maybe compare it to Tamron's, because the Sigma is the lens i'm currently sacing for.
And sometimes i get unsecure which one is superior.
At the mo I'm not inclined to test the Sigma, as
(1) there is a not so overwhelming test at photozone
(2) You read Christian-NRW's remark on that lens?!


1. I have read that, you gave me the link once, thanks :D But i have never seen a review which compares the two.

2. Yes, and that's actually why i got worried, and i got to wondering about if you were planning on, so i asked.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:22 pm 
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I think with Tamron, Tokina and Sigma a lot depends on their quality control, 0eyvind. And that's a thing no-one can test thoroughly, because only with a large sample of tested lenses are you able to make a comment.
So be pepared to get one and test it thoroughly in the privacy of your own rooms. Then give it back if it doesn't perform...

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Last edited by Thomas on Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:37 pm 
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Btw: tested on a Canon body the German mag Color-Foto rated the Sigma EX 70-200/2.8 DG APO HSM IF macro II at 90, 83.5, 73.5 points (max = 100) resp. at the focal lengths of 70/120/200mm.
That makes the Sigma better at the shorter focal lengths but worse at 200mm than the Canon lens. But worse than the Tamron at all focal lengths.
The other thing that's holding me back is Sigma's on MTF-curves here. Those curves show the theoretical limit that a perfectly assembled and QCed lens can achieve. That does not look too good: look at the green curves that reflect sharpness. You can see a steep drop-off for FF/FX sensors!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:27 pm 
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btw, if any of you guys are looking for a "hands-on" video with this lens you can check out the one on my youtube page, posted yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi6CjlWdr24

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:53 am 
Thanks dryan for the video! My own experiences are quite the same.

To get an impression what kind of dreamy effect the sigma delivers in the near field, I've uploaded a 50% size sample shot from photokina - its clearly visible, even more so at 1:1 100%. This JPG ist OOC, shot was taken around the max. mag. distance of that lens.

Image

If you increase the distance, the glowness is reduced and remains visible mostly around highlights. Nevertheless, it's still there even in the shadows, visible by the overall reduced contrast:

Image

In the far field, the picture looked ok, but lacked the punch that those of the tamron had. There mighht be a small backfocus on this lens as I aimed for the wheel and the brakedisc seems sharper, but overall I wasn't just impressed with the results I got (org. full size file):

Image

Build quality was better at the sigma in terms of surface feeling, it just felt "metal". But as I know how fast this EX finish collects dust and dirt and just gets splotched, I'm not very keen on this finish. However, having a metal outer shell does indeed suggest some kind of reliability.

The first impression of reliability disappeared in the first use: the AF pumping often discribed in various resports, appeared in a lot of test framing I did. It apeared only once on the tamron and that was on the very first target I aimed after the lens was mounted on my own S5 (btw, thanks for the exception of the rule, Tamron team).

I returned to the tamron stand a second time to test the tammy on some other bodies because I was in the market for a 70-200mm lens and my visited to photokina was dedicated to testing the options available. I also took testshots on the Nikon VR, which is an excellent lens. But those of the tamron where really good, regarding the price and my lack of need for an AF-S drive and IS, the choice was easy.

I'll give you an update ont he lens as soon as I get it, propably on tuesday.

Christian


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:38 am 
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Yeah, the "blooming" of the Sigma in #2 is not nice!
Did you check to see whether the lens was clean? At last year's Nikon-Expo in Cologne I was astonished about some heavy blooming with the brand new 14-24mm. Looking at the front-lens you could easily see the smear on it! Someone most have tried to clean the lens with his fingers :?
----
Let's stop the Sigma discussion here as it might become confusing to those expecting a Tammy review thread. I've opened a Sigma 70-200 review thread as I have one on order.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:38 am 
If I'm honest, no, I haven't checked explicitly. But the 70mm shots, at which the Sigma performs best according to various tests, were bloomingfree. So I guess it was quite clean. Well, I've been at the fair at 10 o'clock and was one of the first who entered. I visited the tamron stand first (the tamron people were still filling out inventory lists *lol*, catched them by surprise so early it was) and after that went directly to the simga stand. So at least if they cleaned the lens every morning, there should have been quite clean.

I'm at work right now, I'll have some Tamron pics posted later today from the D700 tests - it's totally awesome on fullframe! And I'l post the 70mm shot of the sigma from the alloy wheel as well, for comparison purposes.

regards,
Christian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:44 am 
Oh, I posted that one on another forum regarding the "weak spot" at 135mm as measured by dpreview and Colorfoto. I'll have to investigate this on my APS-C S5Pro, but so far on 35mm-FF, its everything but weak:

(note: AdobeRGB Colorspace, so watch out for false/flat color in unsupported browsers)

D700, OOC JPF, Sharpness=3, AdobeRGB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:10 pm 
Here's the Sigma 70mm, notice the plane of focus is on the windscreen wipers although I clearly aimed for the wheels.

Image

Back to the Tamron.

Image

What I did was to focus on the steelbar and to recompose so that it is in the very outer left upper corner. The Shot was taken at 200mm F2.8 on my 1.5x Crop S5. Thats a shot I took at ISO800, so bear in mind some detail might be gone due to NR. Wanna see the crop of the corner? Here it is, at 100%, developed from raw with sharpness 33 and chromanoise reduced 50, luminous noise 10:

Image

At ISO 100 I guess it would have been readable totally. This way, I recognise load and kg/m² (probably). Remember, thats corner performace wide open at the far end of the zoom range. I was really impressed with the results. Let's hope Tamron is able to supply this kind of quality to the mass market. I'm not eager to exchange my lens until I get a good sample.

Christian


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:22 pm 
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Hello Christian, would be nice to hear about your copy.
I was just experimenting again to get some sharp images at 200/2.8 un AF but only did so when I cranked up the AF micro-adjust to +20 (from the +10 I had it set). This (again) yielded the best results at 200mm but unfortunately totally botched the 135mm results. For 135mm a 0 AF micro-adjustment seems the best bet on my copy.
Now, the 10,000 question is this: Is this behaviour depending on the individual copy (so you might just be lucky and get a perfect one) or is it a design-flaw?
As many labs do everything to eliminate focus-error that may well explain, why some are enthusiastic about this lens (like ColorFoto). But to me that is of no use, as I always use phase-change AF (as opposed to contrast based AF in live-view) and cannot imagine how you would correct such minute adjustments in MF. See this thread.
-----30 min later-----
At a focal length of 100mm I need a strong positive AF micro-adjustment once again. Something around +15 :? This is really giving me trouble as I never remember when shooting to watch out for different micro-adjustments. This behaviour might well brake it for me and be the (only) reason why I will not keep the lens :(

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Last edited by Thomas on Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:03 am 
Hi Thomas,

The lens will arrive today, at least that's what the online tracking says. The parcel service picked it but yesterday instead of monday although it has been payed instantly by CC on saturday and was ready for shipping on monday :(

I'll give you an update as soons as it's here. If it shows the same behaviour, it'll get back to the seller the same minute. I totally rely on phase-AF, too.

The thing is, I didn't notice this change of focus plane on the photokina model, so I expect it to be a sample variation problem rather than a problem og the design. But hey, I'm awaiting a new bought lens, what should I do despite being optimistic :lol:

Greetz
Christian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:56 pm 
I'm not quite following, which one did you order Chris? ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:24 pm 
Oh yes, quite a mix-up. I've ordered the Tamron, and I've received a confirmation on my mobile that I can pick it up later, so it's there and an update will follow later today, probably :D

I could have used it last month when I had to do quite some cropping to get this shot with the 105VR Micro, a view which you might recognize :wink:


NOT SHOT WITH THE TAMRON:

Image


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