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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:26 am 
I bought an sd14 (via ebay) because I was intreagued about the foveon sensor. I wanted it to be a success but I was getting very dismal results. Most of my photos had major colour noise even at ISO 100. I found this even more so when I was doing portrait photography with flash...the skin tones would be blotchy and there was alot of colour noise. I also noticed that the histogram would consistently show a lack of detail compared to the histogram on my Olympus E-300 (by detail I mean the graph would still stretch from edge to edge but the peaks would be very close to the bottom). Finally I was hoping to see great colour reproduction but reds were awefull. I took a picture of a red flower and you couldn't see any detail at all.......it was almost like the saturation slider was turned up beyond max so it washed out other colours.

any ideas.....I don't consider myself a pro but I'm sure I wasn't inept at taking the pictures. Is the SD14 just not up to par yet with the other brands or could it be possible the camera just had a bad sensor. I tried contacting the distributor in canada to ask them but I got no response so I just got rid of the camera. I still like the alure of the sensor and may possibly try it again but not if I'm just going to get crap results again.

thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:02 am 
Hi Geoffrey,

Let me offer you a warm welcome to the Forum!

I'm sorry to hear that you experience with this camera was a lot worse than you had hoped for. I have been researching this camera myself because I am intrigued by this new technology of the Foveon sensor.

Your bad experiences are alarming, since color rendition is supposed to be this camera's strong suit. Some reviews have claimed that the auto white balance wasn't ideal under certain circumstances, but there is nothing to suggest that the camera performs this bad.

Another known issue has been with the early versions of the firmware, which is now at version 1.07.

One of the best layouts of the Foveon's strenghts and weaknesses by far - in my opinion - is this article by Mike Chaney: http://www.ddisoftware.com/sd14-5d/ which I would warmly recommend everyone to read, if they are interested in both the Bayer interpolation shortcomings and the new Foveon.

In some tests, this camera can outperform the vaunted Canon 5D it seems.

Overall, it seems that the SD14 can perform expertly, if the firmware is updated.

I hope you can find some possible root causes that can perhaps explain what you have experienced, but based on the severity you describe, I lean more towards the idea that something was defective in your issue.

Based on the results I have seen the Foveon produce, I'm almost certain that I will get the next Sigma DSLR with this sensor.

Do you have any samples you can post - both good and bad - I would very much like to see some if you have them?

Cheers :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:13 pm 
i had this camera for a week (swap with my friend for mine k10d) just so we can see difference. SD14 first drive me crazy :evil: than makes me think... after 2 days I realized how bad photographer I'm.. witch brin me right dow to basics... after another two days of reading, thinking, waiting for right light i did it. My first real photograph :) I had a few beautiful moments with this camera within a week, i didn't want to give it back. Since then every time im looking at my k10d it makes me feel sick :( unfortunately I cant afford to change system now.

Working with this camera makes you feel special, and comparing it to other bayer sensor dslr don't make sense.

Im sure everything was ok with your camera :) you just didnt know how to use it properly. I know you'll think im crazy :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:01 pm 
well, I'm glad it worked out for you....the camera must have some nuances that I don't know about because I'm not a novice when it comes to taking photographs and tried every compensation under the sun to try and get it to take great photos but to no avail. I liked the idea of the sensor but just could not create images that were not extremely noisy with a very poor histogram (regardless of how much light there was)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:08 pm 
look at this website http://www.rytterfalk.com/.

It help me a lot to understand whole foveon think.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:18 am 
Geoffrey wrote:
I bought an sd14 (via ebay) because I was intreagued about the foveon sensor. I wanted it to be a success but I was getting very dismal results. Most of my photos had major colour noise even at ISO 100. I found this even more so when I was doing portrait photography with flash...the skin tones would be blotchy and there was alot of colour noise.


That only occurs with underexposure.

Geoffrey wrote:
I also noticed that the histogram would consistently show a lack of detail compared to the histogram on my Olympus E-300 (by detail I mean the graph would still stretch from edge to edge but the peaks would be very close to the bottom).


You need to learn how to read the histogram...Peaks near the bottom mean underexposure...You should "Expose to the right" for best results (Make sure the peaks or "hump" are to the right of the histogram)
That goes with any camera, not just the SD14.

Geoffrey wrote:
Finally I was hoping to see great colour reproduction but reds were awefull. I took a picture of a red flower and you couldn't see any detail at all.......it was almost like the saturation slider was turned up beyond max so it washed out other colours.


Was that with RAW or in-camera jpegs?

Geoffrey wrote:
any ideas.....I don't consider myself a pro but I'm sure I wasn't inept at taking the pictures. Is the SD14 just not up to par yet with the other brands or could it be possible the camera just had a bad sensor.


There's nothing wrong with your SD14...It just takes a bigger learning curve than other DSLR's before you can use it to its best abilities.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:21 am 
magic wrote:
i had this camera for a week (swap with my friend for mine k10d) just so we can see difference. SD14 first drive me crazy :evil: than makes me think... after 2 days I realized how bad photographer I'm.. witch brin me right dow to basics... after another two days of reading, thinking, waiting for right light i did it. My first real photograph :) I had a few beautiful moments with this camera within a week, i didn't want to give it back. Since then every time im looking at my k10d it makes me feel sick :( unfortunately I cant afford to change system now.


Actually given how cheap the SD14 is right now you probably could. :wink:

magic wrote:
Working with this camera makes you feel special, and comparing it to other bayer sensor dslr don't make sense.

Im sure everything was ok with your camera :) you just didnt know how to use it properly. I know you'll think im crazy :P


I agree.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:13 am 
DSG wrote:
Geoffrey wrote:
I bought an sd14 (via ebay) because I was intreagued about the foveon sensor. I wanted it to be a success but I was getting very dismal results. Most of my photos had major colour noise even at ISO 100. I found this even more so when I was doing portrait photography with flash...the skin tones would be blotchy and there was alot of colour noise.


That only occurs with underexposure.

Geoffrey wrote:
I also noticed that the histogram would consistently show a lack of detail compared to the histogram on my Olympus E-300 (by detail I mean the graph would still stretch from edge to edge but the peaks would be very close to the bottom).


You need to learn how to read the histogram...Peaks near the bottom mean underexposure...You should "Expose to the right" for best results (Make sure the peaks or "hump" are to the right of the histogram)
That goes with any camera, not just the SD14.


I can read a histogram so the problem isn't with the sensor it is with the meter. If I'm getting consistently low histograms when on my Olympus E-300 I'm getting great pictures with near perfect histograms then it would state the sd14 metering modes do not work well and one would almost want to either buy a light meter or do it like in the old film days and just set the settings manualy based on a generic formula. It's just a pitty the camera didn't seem to deliver for me.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:12 pm 
Geoffrey wrote:
DSG wrote:
Geoffrey wrote:
I bought an sd14 (via ebay) because I was intreagued about the foveon sensor. I wanted it to be a success but I was getting very dismal results. Most of my photos had major colour noise even at ISO 100. I found this even more so when I was doing portrait photography with flash...the skin tones would be blotchy and there was alot of colour noise.


That only occurs with underexposure.

Geoffrey wrote:
I also noticed that the histogram would consistently show a lack of detail compared to the histogram on my Olympus E-300 (by detail I mean the graph would still stretch from edge to edge but the peaks would be very close to the bottom).


I can read a histogram so the problem isn't with the sensor it is with the meter. If I'm getting consistently low histograms when on my Olympus E-300 I'm getting great pictures with near perfect histograms.


But the E-300 has in-camera noise reduction..The SD14 does'nt, so if you dont get the exposure right you will get noisey pics.

Geoffrey wrote:
then it would state the sd14 metering modes do not work well and one would almost want to either buy a light meter or do it like in the old film days and just set the settings manualy based on a generic formula. It's just a pitty the camera didn't seem to deliver for me.


I never rely on the SD14's metering because I only use manual focus only non-Sigma lenses so I use manual mode and set everything manually 100% of the time.


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 Post subject: noise and poor exposure
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:51 am 
I didn't realise that noise was caused by an inaccurate exposure. I thought noise was from long exposure or high ISO where the sensor was receiving alot of current and electron jumping created noise. So at high ISO there is just more juice going to the sensor to ramp up it's sensitivity and in a long exposure the juice is just there longer and increasing the chance for errors. Whatever the cause of noise to be, I just found the camera didn't handle it like I was hoping and didn't reproduce the colour and detail that was tooted by foveon


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:28 pm 
Geoffrey wrote:
I didn't realise that noise was caused by an inaccurate exposure. I thought noise was from long exposure or high ISO where the sensor was receiving alot of current and electron jumping created noise. So at high ISO there is just more juice going to the sensor to ramp up it's sensitivity and in a long exposure the juice is just there longer and increasing the chance for errors. Whatever the cause of noise to be, I just found the camera didn't handle it like I was hoping and didn't reproduce the colour and detail that was tooted by foveon


Nail the exposure and its delivers:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:31 pm 
so this brings full circle back to the start and that I must have just gotten a flawed camera. I say this because I also take wonderful photogaphs that are properly exposed. Perhaps someday I'll try again but this time I'll save up money and buy from a dealer so at least if I get a dud again, It'll be covered under warranty.


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