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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Hi everyone, a quick note to let you know we've just published our full review and video tour of the Sigma DP1 - which as I'm sure you all know, is the World's first compact camera to employ a DSLR-sized sensor (indeed, the same one from the Sigma SD14).

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Sigma_DP1/

Gordon


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:15 pm 
Thanks for another great review!

I wonder what kind of customer Sigma had in mind when designing this camera. So much money for a single focal length camera... maybe if it was a bit more wide angle, but 28mm is what an average DSLR Kit gives you... for a lower price and much more flexibility. Anyway, I just can't see anyone except some collectors and technic enthusiasts going out and buying this camera.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:35 am 
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PrinzMegahertz wrote:
Thanks for another great review!

I wonder what kind of customer Sigma had in mind when designing this camera. So much money for a single focal length camera... maybe if it was a bit more wide angle, but 28mm is what an average DSLR Kit gives you... for a lower price and much more flexibility. Anyway, I just can't see anyone except some collectors and technic enthusiasts going out and buying this camera.


I think that Sigma was really going for the photo enthusiast who does have a dslr, but wants something with DSLR quality that can be thrown in a shirt pocket. I am actually glad that sigma decided to really work on the overall IQ and not the price.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:46 am 
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Yep, dryan2's got it in one.

Tricky thing for Sigma though are cameras like the E-420 plus 25mm. Sure it's still bigger than the DP1, but it is smaller than most DSLR kits... and cheaper than the DP1 as well...

What does everyone think? Surely every DSLR owner looking for a compact would be interested in a model with a big sensor, so would you buy the DP1? If not, why not?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:30 am 
Hmmm tough question Gordon but as a DSLR owner who might be looking for a compact I have to say I wouldn't buy the DP1. I think Sigma has done a great job of showing that it can be done but there's a long way to go yet. I think most DSLR owners who buy a compact do so for the added convenience they offer. The DP1's lack of any zoom, even a simple 3x, intelligent auto mode, poor screen in low light and poor feature set when compared to other compacts, such as the G9 or FX500 means that there is too much of a compromise for those looking for 'out of the pocket flexibility'. These downsides could have been overlooked if the performance turned out to be as good as Sigma said it would - sadly this is not the case and the lack of even a 1600 ISO option is a major killer for me. Also, the unacceptably slow handling is another major downside. Again, if the quality was there, I might consider it.

Well done Sigma for hopefully opening the floodgates but the first try just isn't good enough to be worth the money in my opinion. I'd much sooner spend my money on the G9 or one of Panasonic's models because I think I might leave the DP1 at home even more than my DSLR out of sheer frustration.

Of course, your review was fantastic and fair as always Gordon, good work. 8)

Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:36 am 
Nice Review Gordon,

A compact camera without Optical Zoom or Image Stabilisation in 2008, you wouldn't believe it. I split my sides laughing when I heard that one.

The only positive side I can see is the DSLR sensor and image quality but with the lack of features; why would I even bother to shell out cash unless I had more money than sense.

That's what winds me up with these products, a unique advantage in one aspect but a lack of the basics in others...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:49 am 
Going to check it out now!

Cheers Gordon


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:00 am 
Great review Gordon! I've been waiting a long time for reviews on this camera.

The images are stunning, now if they could only fit the sensor in an ordinary compact.....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:06 pm 
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If I had the cash, I'd buy it without a doubt.

I think a lot of pros who go on holiday, or even those with photography as a main hobby and have the cash to splash will be interested in this.

28mm f/4 isn't all that good though, but the lens isn't big on it so can't complain much there.

I would have preferred a 24-70mm f/3.5 on it. ISO 1600 would be nice too.

I had another look at a Nikon D40 when i was in jessops the other day, forgot how darn small those things are!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:14 pm 
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Hi Gordon,

Excellent review, of course! It's interesting that you are seeing the same poor high ISO performance that Trusted Reviews saw in this test of the SD14 which, as you say, uses the same sensor. So while the DP1 undoubtedly fills a niche would I be right to be disappointed that one year on the Foveon technology hasn't improved and to think that, despite those relatively large pixels, it is never going to catch up with Bayer matrix sensors as far as high ISO sensor noise is concerned?

Bob.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:48 pm 
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Hi Bob, I'd certainly say it's slightly suspicious that in all the time Foveon has been around, they haven't managed to scale their sensor to more than 4.69 Mpixel output.

And it also doesn't bode well that they have poor performance at higher ISOs given the large size of those photosites - imagine what a modern Bayer sensor with 4.69 Mpixels could do for instance. So maybe the X3 technology is not great at managing noise at higher sensitivities.

BUT you only have to look at those 100% crops to see what the sensor's capturing at lower sensitivities looks fantastic.

During my extended time with the DP1 though, I also had the Olympus E-420 and 25mm pancake with me, and I personally felt I'd prefer to accommodate the larger and heavier DSLR and benefit from its performance and flexibility. (and it was cheaper)

It's hypocritical I know, as I'm one of the people who said I'd immediately buy a compact with a DSLR sensor in it if one bcame available. But now we have one, I'm still drawn to a smaller DSLR instead.

Maybe if it had higher resolution, better low light performance, faster handling etc... It's a tricky one because Sigma has arguably delivered what we were all asking for (ie image quality even at the expense of features), but how many of us will actually buy one?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:55 pm 
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Gordon Laing wrote:
...how many of us will actually buy one?

I think I'll wait for the Canon G10. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, I can understand why Sigma went for a prime and stuck with a sensor they already knew well and might even have already had in stock. Other issues like slow start-up time and AF are more surprising.

Your review prompted me to wonder why the lens was at the front. Rather than take this thread off-topic I created a new post here.

Bob.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:58 pm 
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Great review, Gordon: I use a Canon G9 - I want a camera that I can carry with me at all times in a shoulder bag as well as RAW and an image-stabilized zoom lens, none of which the Sigma DP1 provides. Still, Sigma are to be praised for bringing out something different. Re quality - I compared photos taken with the G9 and DP1 at ISO 100 (99% of my pics). After resampling to make a photo at metre wide at 300ppi (that's a big pic!) I can't see much difference in quality.


Last edited by Strabo on Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:17 am 
Gordon you must have been the first person to give a good video review of this product because the whole interwebz are linking to your review!!

Best Reviews on the Internet!! Seriously after reading reviews on about 30+ camera websites I have awarded you the Grand Prize!

What do you win??

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You win a six pack when I draw you.

Best Regards
Matt


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:33 am 
lmao!


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