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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:36 pm 
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    Fujifilm aims to be world No. 3 in cameras

Hi folks,

Well, that's the headline from this Reuters article. They are already No. 5 so would need to pull ahead of Samsung first but, of course, Samsung has plans of its own.

The big question is how Fuji plans to do this. Obviously their compact cameras will make up the bulk of units shipped but maybe they will also leverage their success with the X100 by developing an interchangeable lens version? Given the nature of the hybrid viewfinder of the X100 I can foresee difficulties with that: the Leica aficionado may value an optical viewfinder which maintains the same field of view whatever lens is attached to the camera but would this still be true with Fuji's target audience? Frankly, I have no idea. Or maybe they could they find room to employ a zoom-able optical viewfinder (as in some high end compacts) and retain the hybrid element as well? Leica recently announced plans to develop an EVIL camera so could Fuji ditch the optical viewfinder of the X100 and go entirely with an electronic one? Or would they return to the DSLR market with another Nikon F mount lens system?

So many questions and no answers! What are your predictions?

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:07 pm 
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It is rather late in the game to bring out a "me too" mirrorless camera, so they need to do something with as much WOW factor as the X100.

If I were Fuji, I'd go for a HVF design. It might not be effective at longer focal lengths, but then you could switch to pure EVF mode when the OVF crop gets too small. Maybe a multi-step OVF zoom would mitigate that to an extent, but I'm not sure about a continuous zoom OVF.

As a higher risk strategy, they could go full frame. It will have to be a photographer-centric design. Undercut Leica in price (shouldn't be hard) and it could fly off the virtual shelves.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:13 am 
Great ambitions, and with the recent choice of going for something retro/unique/up market like the X100 there seems to be a lot to look forward to for us.

I think they might get Samsung, since the X100 is a real hit, but the number '3' spot? That is Nikon. That's a giant and it would require something monumental to beat them in only two years. Reading the article it seems they are gunning for a position just below Leica in terms of exclusivity. Leica is doing exceptionally well with the M9, so there is a market, but I don't know if they can compete with a rangefinder, with anything other than a rangefinder. The X100 is great, but I wonder if a version with interchangeable lenses at a higher price will hit a niche. Which is what I assume they are referring to.

It might work. None of the mirrorless systems appeals to me, because none has the right combination of looks, controls, viewfinder and lenses. But then again, I mirror everything against a Leica M. If I have to spend twice the price of the X100, I might be sorely tempted to get an M8 instead.

Still very interesting developments!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:35 am 
That's just a dream...Fuji is a smart developer with products with real advantages,not just marketing "candy",but that's all.
p.s. I thought Canon was no.1 in sales & Nikon 2nd.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:36 am 
I think Sony has moved to the number 2 spot.

Anyway, I do think Fuji is serious. They might overestimate the effect of an X100 with interchangeable lenses, but we will see. (Possibly in september.)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:26 am 
So did Panasonic declared that they would become no.1 in all tech before 2020,but it's a though competition. (not that I wouldn't believe the most professional brand in tech,but innovations pop-up every second from everywhere)

p.s. Sony no.2? with compact camera sales? in my country anyway,Sony DSLRs don't even have user reviews...does anybody have a market study? I would really like to see one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:33 am 
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It's true that looking only at DSLR Sony is a distant 3rd. But lots of tech writers are lumping in all interchangeable lens cameras together, and by that measure there's a suggestion there Sony have overtaken Nikon in unit sales, at least in some regions.

I have no idea how compact sales mix into that.

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Canon DSLRs: 7D, 5D2, 1D, 600D, 450D full spectrum, 300D IR mod
Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:24 pm 
I don't know how that works either, but I seem to have picked up that Sony was ranked 2. Maybe they lump all interchangeable lens systems together, maybe it is the total of all sales including compacts.

In any case, I see Fuji being able to catch Samsung, but not Nikon. Nikon is supposed to be working on their own mirrorless system. I can't imagine Nikon going wrong if they release their own system. (Although some rumors suggested a very small sensor.)

Thinking of Fuji and their efforts to go up market. How do you think a camera will sell with these specs:
- X100 base camera
- Interchangeable lenses, primarily f/2 primes
- Good manual focus
- Less button clutter on the back

I think that would sell boat loads. Since Fuji already indicated that the X100 was a test of the market for something even more ambitious, I am curious to see what they will try next.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:42 pm 
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I wonder if this is all just Fujifilm "talking the talk" again. When the X100 was announced the publicity machine swung into top gear and created considerable excitement (the microsite is full of it) but in the end, and I know this is just my own personal prejudice, the X100 is flawed. A fixed prime that is reportedly slightly soft wide open at closer distances, a lens which doesn't accept filters without an add-on, a confusing user interface, an EVF which fails to look at all natural (IMHO) and a manual focussing control about which the less said the better.

OK, that's all a bit harsh. I didn't get to spend a lot of time with the camera and lots of people love the X100 but I don't think Fuji can afford to make the same mistakes again, especially if they produce an interchangeable lens version at a price considerably higher than that of the X100. And the price would be a lot higher, I think, because such a camera makes no sense unless they also develop a new lens system. Of course they might opt into micro four-thirds but then their camera would be going head to head with much cheaper models which have already been refined over several generations!

Bob.

Edit: Reference to the maximum aperture removed. :oops: Thanks, Dutch, for the correction.

_________________
Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:51 pm 
"hard talk" aside,Fuji can really aim high with their sensors. And the X100 is a brilliant camera,although yes,it's F/2.8 lens is soft wide open & it's a huge mistake for such a lovely package...for a comparisson,the Panasonic 20mm F/1.7 (interchangeable) is pretty sharp at F/2.8.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:14 pm 
Small correction; the lens is an f/2 prime, not f/2.8 (that was the X1).

But sure, there are a lot of mixed reports. Point is, it sells. If they address some of those issues for a new model with interchangeable lenses, it will sell. People will prefer it over a Leica because of the price, and possibly the AF, but will still consider it a "digital rangefinder". It is not, of course, it is just a compromise.

Like I said, if the price will be twice that of the X100, I will consider an M8 long before the Fuji. That's because I know I really only want a digital rangefinder, and don't like to compromise. I do think however others will think differently, and that the "others" are a majority.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:57 pm 
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Here are the stats:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-1 ... odels.html

2010 - 2009

Canon 19 19
Sony 17.9 16.9
Nikon 12.6 11.1
Samsung 11.1 10.9
Kodak 7.4 8.8
Panasonic 7.6 7.6
Olympus 6.1 6.2
Fuji 4.9 5.4
Casio 4 4.7
PENTAX 1.5 1.7
Vivitar 1.2 0.7
Other 6.7 7

* Fuji is loosing market share not gaining


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:06 am 
Sony has always been a marketing lion & it's no surprise they sale so much. But Samsung? Their compacts are not really that great,they have virtually no DSLRs,their lenses are limited...what are they selling?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:14 am 
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I'd have to guess Samsung have a bigger following in the East.

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Lenses: EF 35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8, 135/2+SF, 28-80 V, 70-300L, 100-400L, TS-E 24/3.5L, MP-E 65, EF-S 15-85 IS
3rd party: Zeiss 2/50 makro, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300 f/2.8 OS, Celestron 1325/13
Tinies: Sony HX9V.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Samsung is the world's largest technology company. There is probably a bit of it in everything you buy ... regardless of brand name.


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