Camera Labs

I hope this is a suitable place for discussion and information exchange on the Fuji HS10... Mods please shift if not, thanks.

As those who have been able to Review it say - this is an "interesting" camera - with opinions from "dead-awful" to "very good" across the range.

While it certainly isn't "awful", it is nowhere near "perfect", either. That is, while it has some very good features - the lens, the 10-7-5-3fps continuous shooting, the excellent external buttons to "hold" then adjust frequently changed settings with the Command Dial (which Dial itself is a very welcome item on a P&S camera), and more - it also has some rather strange anomalies and 'missings' for a $550.00 (in Australia) camera.

While the fast continuous shooting is nice indeed - only 7 frames? Perhaps a bit more buffer would allow 10+. The "Continuous"doesn't lock-in. Use another control and it cancels. So for example, if you have Review turned off to speed-up the shot-to-shot time, then use the ">" button to check the last shots - it cancels.

If there's a setting that locks-in Continuous - I'd like to know about it... (No, if you select, say, Aperture Priority with preferred settings, plus Continuous, then Save that to Custom, that doesn't lock-in Continuous either, as I'd hoped it might.)

While my manual Zoom is freeing-up a little with use - it's still "sticky" - that is, requires some pressure to overcome the slight resistance to turning. This makes smooth zooming with Video too difficult. It's somewhat better on a tripod, but still awkward to do smoothly.

Otherwise the manual Zoom is very good, being faster and easier to change for single-shot than the usual powered Zooms.

The Video "controls" are rudimentary at best. The "only" way to Start and Stop the Video is via the Red Button. On a tripod this isn't too bad - hand-held, particularly when using the Viewfinder - it's very clumsy-awkward. The small Red Button is about 3mm from the also small AE/AF Lock Button to the lower left of the thumb-rest.

It isn't that Fuji doesn't know how to "do it better" - they do. And did so on the older Fuji SD2000HD, which I also have. The S2000 has a Camera-Icon for Video on the Mode Dial. (The HS10 doesn't - the Camera-Icon on its Mode-Dial is for "Auto".)

With the S2000 selecting Video on the Mode Dial goes to whichever Video level you've set in the Menus - 320 x 240, 640 x 480, or 1280 x 720 (MPEG4 / *mp4) - you then half-shutter to pre-focus 'beep', then full-down to start Video instantly. To stop the Video smoothly - half-shutter. That is - no fumbling for a Red Button among others on the camera back.

As for Menus in the HS10 - they're a bit of a mess. Also - there's no Custom Menu (as in the My-Menu in the Canon SX10-etc) - on which to place most often used settings - the IS modes, Video modes, etc.

If anyone has found "work-arounds" for any of the above - and more - "interesting habits" of the HS10 - I'd be very happy to hear about them.

Regards, Dave.

I like to take good pictures but I don't think I am a "serious photographer". It's more like I love a good gadget in hands and "tame" it to work with me.

Now I am ready for another camera and can spend about USD 500. I was reading specs, reviews and seeing pictures of HS10 and was very close to buying it when SX30is was announced. I am confused big time as I don't change cameras that often.

what I think about the HS10
- would love the manual zoom - which is why I started looking at Fuji
- didn't like the images at some reviews but comparing to SX30 images they are the same (to me) in terms of blurring/excessive processing at details level.
- know the manual zoom can be a problem with shooting movies (shake etc.) but that should be ok.
- blank about Fuji cameras in long term or in general as they are not very popular (at least at higher end models) here (Ahmedabad, India)
- 30x zoom is more than enough I guess for most needs (I will like to know how often does one feel 30x is not enough I need more!)

the SX30
- Canon as a brand - I have used it before and liked it, they have a service center right across from my house
- I used to think the excessive processing etc in HS10 were due to CMOS sensor and the said gaps between sensor pixels. SX30 has a CCD sensor (I now think the images are very comparable.)
- not sure how good or bad the 24 to 840mm in 55 steps (learnt from Gordon's review) would be while framing a picture. Common man's math says roughly 15mm of zoom in one step! So if you are at 24mm the next notch is at 39mm. Is that correct way of thinking?

I was also distantly thinking of buying Canon 1000d with 18-55 and use my old EF lens (35-105 from Canon EOS Rebel Film camera x 1.6 factor?) with it till I can afford new ones. But that may be too much to carry around on holidays.

I can go on like this, but I would like more ideas, it would help a great deal to make this decision for a long term purchase.

Thanks,

The 1000D is not as huge as you may think, it's a real small dSLR.
But it doesnt have that much zoom of course.

_________________
Ruben

Panasonic DMC-FZ18, Panasonic DMC-FZ28, Canon G5, Canon 350D, Canon 50D + BG-E2N
Tamron 17-50 2.8, Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,
Canon 18-55 II plus lots of Minolta MD/M42 lenses and bodies

Thanks Ruben,
Yes, I did see 1000D at a store and it sure isn't big. It looked like a very simple no-blah-blah camera. I will keep that on my short list.

Any comments on the way I am evaluating the other two cameras? Is the way I am thinking about them correct?

I was also interested in knowing if the shutter release to actual shot delays are noticeable in these the super zooms. Are they significant compared to DSLRs?

Thanks again.

Shutter lag (delay) is not that big in a super zoom as in a compact, but, in my experience, more than a DSLR. The later has to flip a mirror before taking a shot but it is stil faster at it than the superzooms and compacts.

_________________
Radu
Canon PowerShot S100
Canon 50D , SIGMA 10-20 f3.5 ,Canon EF 24-105 L IS USM, Canon EF 100/2.8 macro Canon EF 50/1.4 ,Canon EF 85 f1.8,Canon EF-S17-85 4-5.6 Old Tamron 28-300 inherited from my Canon Rebel G film camera
Canon580EXII
http://www.errre.net

Tej - If you look at the original posting date - that was back in August...

The HS10 "JPEG smearing" was mainly solved with the second firmware update, 1.02. It also fixed the JPEG distortion at 24mm "Wide end."

Reviews are rating the HS10 JPEGs as better than the SX30's.

On a "Canon comparison" they're similar to the SX20's, but not as good as the SX10's Superfine JPEG level. I have an SX10 and have used a friend's SX20 quite extensively, and would agree with that.

The HS10 is rather better than the SX10/20/30 at higher ISO images.

The SX30 has noise just visible at ISO 200, more so at ISO 400, and is "fuzzing out" at ISO 800. Its maximum ISO 1600 is an "only if you had to" setting.

The HS10 has almost nil noise at ISO 200 - you can use it for normal shooting, and to enable the 200% Dynamic Range function. At ISO 400, there is still little noise, and you can use the DR 400% function.

ISO 800 and 1600 are very usable in low light and indoors - with the JPEGs, reducing the image size to 1600 x 1200 or smaller almost eliminates "visible" noise. Or you can convert to a non-lossy format - PSD or XCF - and de-noise.

Or, you can shoot RAW - or use RAW + JPG to look at the JPEGs, then decide which RAWs you want to process. With the RAWs, attend to White Balance, Saturation, Range, first, then de-noise, and last, sharpen.

Then Save to 16/8 bit TIFF, a non-lossy format - you can then "fine-tune" the images in Photoshop or Gimp, before converting to JPEG. Save and back-up Copies of the RAWs - you can go back later and apply different processing for other purposes.

The SX30 doesn't give the RAW option - without a CHDK hack - and even with that is left at a maximum continuous shooting speed of 1.3fps. The HS10 has 10/7/5/3fps in JPEG, and 5fps or 3fps in RAW, or RAW + JPEG.

Those who need to do Sports, Kids, Pets, and other "fast-movings" - will be delighted with the HS10's fast Continuous Shooting. You can get sharp clear shots you never were able to get without that. You can also use a tripod at long zoom to get continuous bursts of birds, etc. It multiplies the chances of getting a very good "position and focus" shot, with those quick-moving little folk, greatly!

(My comparison for that, is HS10 to SX10. But to "get serious" with those - even an entry-level DSLR, with its 12+ times bigger sensor, will be better. But you need a Body - and a collection of lenses, to do that...)

There is a lot more data/information, dynamic range, de-noising, etc - in a 15MB+ RAW, than in any JPEG.

The HS10 can do "usable" images at ISO 3200 and 6400 - even at the integrated-digital 2x "virtual 60x" 1,440mm - if you can't get the shot another way.

The Fujinon lens assembly and BSI-CMOS combination can give very good results, but it's a complex camera, and for best results, you do have to "tell it what to do".

Using RAW, the HS10 can give excellent (for a P&S) high ISO / low light results.

From what's now available in SX30 images in the Reviews, I'm sure that the HS10 can create better IQ still images - BUT - you have to learn the camera, and "tell it what to do" - to do that.

The HS10 easily beats the SX30 at high ISO, including the ISO 3200 and 6400 levels the SX30 doesn't have.

With the HS10 you will be using Aperture and Shutter Priority more than with the SX30 to get good results. You will use the excellent Manual mode - it has very good indicators to show best settings - often, so you can "tell it what to do". The Canon will require that much less often.

Contrary to some Reviews and Owner Reports - the HS10 has very fast and accurate Manual Focus - with or without 'magnified' centre section. You'd use that often, at max optical or digital zoom, and in low light.

The SX30 - like the SX10/20 - is a more "user-friendly" camera. Canon has biased the SX30 to its excellent Video controls and use, over still-image.

Fuji has done the opposite with the HS10 - the video is good quality, but lacks good controls. The bias is to still-image - but you have to learn the camera, so you can tell it what to do, to get best results.

For folk "learning up to DSLR level" - the HS10 is a very good buy. For casual users wanting excellent video, and very adequate images - the SX30 is probably a better buy.

Dave.

Thanks Radu,
I love your "can't do whithout" main camera - "Stereoscopic Homo Sapiens Brain with 2x 50 mm lenses model 1955 (AF busted, need correction lenses- no warranty ) "

Thank you Dave (oldwarbler),
I love how you take the time to explain things in details. This will certainly help not only in deciding what to buy but also after I have the camera in how to best use it. I will keep coming back to these forum for more tips on using the HS10 which I will most probably buy.

Thank you.

hi Dave,
I read in a review that the EVF of HS10, which automatically turns-on when one presses the eye , has a perceptible lag. Has it been fixed in the firmware updates?
How good is the image stabilizing system compared to canon sx30 is, which provides over four stops of compensation? Is it possible to handhold a shot at the telephoto end?
Also, how is the quality of the screen and how much memory does it support?
It seems that you are quite familiar with this camera. What do you think about doing a detailed user review!!

Arpan - I think I mentioned elsewhere - that "Auto" EVF/LCD switch is a gimmick. Sounds good in the ads... Maddening to try to use. If using the LCD to review pix, or use menus - if a hand or even camera-strap shadow crosses it - it will switch to EVF... Very annoying! And it uses power all the time it's On - turn the darned thing Off...!

Also - change the EVF/LCD from Fuji's "default" 30fps and "0" Brightness - to 60fps and +2/+3 Brightness - it has 11 levels for that. That makes a 'chalk-and-cheese' difference to EVF use.

Turning the Auto-EVF/LCD switch Off, seems to save more power than running 60fps on EVF/LCD uses. On AA-Eneloops, I went from approx 400 shots to 440-450. That usage is without Video.

The HS10 has 4 stabilising modes - 1-Continuous, 2-Shoot-only, and both of those can have Digital Stabilising added - modes "3" and "4".

The problems some Reviewers and User Reports had with non-sharp images at long zoom, I - after using the camera - think were Focus problems. The stabilising itself - I use "2", Shoot only - is good. However, at long zoom, and it can depend on target and background - or if it's a dull day - the AF can "hunt" before lock-on and 'beep'.

Change to Manual Focus - available in all Modes, including Auto, so apparently designed for this - and, as I've said before - "tell the camera what to do".

Contrary to early Reviews and User Reports - the MF is very good. You do not "wind the barrel focus-ring round-and-round and nothing happens". Instead, press the AE/AF-Lock button. That uses the AF to give an approximate focus. It's actually pretty accurate. You then just "rock" the focus-ring a few mm either side of "centre" to get the sharpest focus. There's an onscreen focus-bar, with yellow "range" dot. You can turn the magnified centre Focus Check off if usage is better without it.

The HS10 isn't a "simple P&S" - it's more like a DSLR - as the dozen or so external controls, buttons, and separate Command Dial, do hint at. You must set it correctly for conditions - then tell it how to use those settings. When you do - the Fujinon lens works very well with the BSI-Sensor.

I mentioned the LCD/EVF setup above. Reset it as suggested, and both then work well. The 3" LCD has 230,000 pixels - so at 30fps isn't brilliant. At 60fps - and +2 or +3 on Brightness, it's pretty good. On a tripod - the LCD is very good - the LCD adjusts up-down - but doesn't rotate like the Canons.

When handheld - I use the EVF - firm stance, elbows-in - and have no problems with it at full zoom - including using MF. You can have the MF "magnified centre" Focus-Check on or off.

If you have a small target - say, bird in a tree, with branches and leaves around - use Spot Metering and Centre Focus (both quickly selected, camera to face, with the 5 buttons to left of the LCD) - and MF. Then, even hand-held at high zoom - you can "select out" the bird from the branches and leaves. Again, you're telling the HS10 what to do - and how you want it to do it.

As for SDHC Cards - you can use up to 32GB. I tend to use Sandisk and Transcend Class 6 in the 4GB size - I wouldn't want to have a whole day's work on one very big card - then have a card problem or mislay the card - and "lose the whole day".

The HS10 has, as I see it, two main problems - one being the video controls - the Canon SX30 and Panny FZ100 both have better controls. However - if you do relatively short clips with the HS10 - and adjust colour, saturation, sharpen, etc, in something like Avidemux, before assembling them in a video Editor - I use Kdenlive, in Linux - it's very similar in results to Sony Vegas Pro friends use in Windows - results can be very adequate.

The other "problem" is - the HS10 just isn't a P&S... If used as a P&S on Auto, for snapshots - there are plenty of smaller P&S cameras at half the price or less, that will do that better.

As an example - I pick up my HS10 and switch on to my usual "carry" mode - and it's in Shutter Priority, 100 ISO, Spot Photometry (Metering), and Centre Focus. If I go to 200 ISO - that's preset to have the 200% Dynamic Range function kick-in.

There's almost no "noise" difference between ISO 100 and 200, and still nearly nil at ISO 400. At ISO 800, noise is still low enough to use it on a cloudy day for "normal" shooting.

You can have quite usable - onscreen, reduce the size to 1280 x 1024 or 1024 x 768 - images at ISO 6400, 30x zoom (better if less zoom, of course) - and even at 30x x 2x digital - 60x virtual, at ISO 3200 or 6400.

So long as you "tell it how to do those things".

I have the "Custom" mode preset at Shutter Priority, ISO 200 (no DR), Spot Metering, Centre Focus, and RAW + JPEG. MF can be added in a couple of seconds via the external controls.

If you prefer an easy-to-use Camera, without RAW (until a CHDK is done), slow Continuous at 1.3fps, and poor ISO ability (noise starts at ISO 200, visible at 400, more so at 800) - that does however have excellent controls for Video - the SX30 is the leader at present.

And if you want RAW, fast Continuous up to an actual 12fps JPEG / 5fps RAW and RAW+JPEG, excellent higher ISO abilities - but lacks good Video controls - the HS10 takes a lot of beating... BUT - you have to "work at it" to get best results. You'd probably tend to use a tripod more with the HS10 than with the SX30. I bought mine a Slik F740 light, low-cost at $55.00, and folds compactly enough to fit in a carry-bag.

Dave.

Hi tej,

Are you considering the Canon 1000D with the SX30IS and the HS10?

The ultra-zooms may be good or even great cameras for their class, but this is my experience:
I have tried the Panasonic FZ35, which got praise from most of the reviewers. A very good package it is, with great macro and wonderful detail with the base sensitivity. Then, I got a chance to use the Canon 500D for a few days. The Canon with ISO400 and ISO800 would be better than the FZ35 used at ISO80 or ISO100. The level of detail captured by the 500D can put the FZ35 to shame in some cases. The FZ35 remains an excellent camera and a great package and costs a fraction of the 500D, but the 500D's output is unarguably better. If you feel a 300mm lens, giving you an equivalent of 480mm on the Canon can suit your needs, and you don't require the colossal zoom range, my suggestion would be you go for a DSLR. I wouldn't have believed the world of difference it can cause if I hadn't tried it myself. But, now if I were to buy a camera, I wish it to be a DSLR.
Form Gordon's review, it seems that the SX30IS suffers from vignetting throughout the zoom range. The Fuji HS10 seems to apply over-aggressive noise reduction to in-camera JPEGS, which blurs out fine detail right from low sensitivities.
Hence, it image quality is the priority, I'd say a DSLR is worth the hassles!

Jinay.

_________________
A picture is worth a thousand words, but a photograph should make you say just one - "WOW!"

Canon EOS 550D + 18-55mm Kit Lens + Canon 75-300mm III USM + Filters.
Panasonic Lumix FZ35

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdm_01/

Jinay - Hi, good to see you again!

Did the HS10 you used have both the 1.01 and 1.02 firmware upgrades? Those made a big difference to the JPEG over-processing in the camera.

The 15MB+ RAF RAWs of course aren't processed in the camera. If you're just doing hobby-pix - you can shoot RAW + JPEG (at up to 5fps) - and look at the JPEGs to see which of the RAF RAWs you want to process. That can save a lot of time, if the burst was at a moving target, and just 1 or 2 were in good position and focus.

The HS10 isn't a camera at its best in Auto or Program. For best results you have to tell it what to do. As a "family camera", which will be used by the kids and less-experienced Aunty Flo..., it isn't a a good choice.

At higher ISOs, the HS10 will perform better than most Bridge Zooms. Dull day, in-shadow, or indoor, low-light images at ISO 800 and 1600 are very usable - particularly if you shoot RAW and process well.

You can get "usable" - onscreen, or to share - images at ISO 3200 and 6400 - even at a virtual 60x / 1,440mm - if you can't get the shot any other way.

If you're going to compare any Bridge Zoom with a DSLR - you might consider that a crop-body DSLR starts the comparison with a 12+ times larger sensor. And to get to a 35mm equiv 450mm - you need a 300mm lens. You could then crop the "450mm" image to look like a Bridge Zoom's 700-800mm, and it'd still look pretty good..

But if there are new crop-bodies + new 300mm lenses available for the current price of an HS10 - AUD$505.00 - some kind person might tell me about them...!

A couple from HS10 showing that contrary to some (not here!) - Reviews, it can "show some colour", and be somewhere near usable focus...

(Those are in Shutter Priority at 400th and 500th second - the wind was waving the flowers about, so had to "stop" them. Metering, Spot - Focus, Centre.)

Dave.

[img][img]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5710/s0040033.th.jpg[/img]

[img][img]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7152/dscf0053o.th.jpg[/img]

Hi Dave,

Same here! Nice to be back! Those are really wonderful pictures of the flowers you have posted, and I would certainly give you more credit than your camera! Maybe if you can master your camera, you can really produce fantastic results like you show. Since this year's ultra-zoom cameras from Canon and Panasonic have disappointed in some respects, the HS10 still stands out in some respects.

Jinay.

_________________
A picture is worth a thousand words, but a photograph should make you say just one - "WOW!"

Canon EOS 550D + 18-55mm Kit Lens + Canon 75-300mm III USM + Filters.
Panasonic Lumix FZ35

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdm_01/

Hi, Jinay - Thanks for your inputs.
You are absolutely correct in your summary " if image quality is the priority, I'd say a DSLR is worth the hassles!".
and thanks Dave for doing the explaining and posting some more of your stunning HS10 pictures.

There are a few key points to note
- If 1000D can produce better pictures then the HS10 - I have no doubts about that.
- If the 1000D has better functions and flexibility for taking pictures than the HS10 I would say - based on my knowledge - Yes.
- Does the sound of an SLR camera taking picture feel like a song - to me - Yes.
- Is 1000D a good camera "for me at this point" as compared to HS10/SX30 - after much thinking may be No.

Here is my story:
I used a Canon film SLR between 1996 and 2004 I still have it but don't use it for the simple reason it being a film camera.
In 2004 it was an upgrade from the film part of the camera to digital when I moved to Nikon Coolpix E3700 (3.2mp, 3x) and I am still using it!

My choice for a new camera is based on some key ideas which are "specific to me":
- Budget - INR25000 (USD 550) (1000D and HS10/SX30 will fit that with their in the box configurations!)
- Needs / Requirements
- I want to move from casual-family pictures back to little more serious pictures so I would like some flexibility in taking pictures. (Both can do that, but for the budget HS10/SX30 will have much more reach, I love the manual zoom ring on HS10, I can use some filters and Macros from old 58mm lens with HS10 if that is needed at all!)
- I must have taken thousands of pictures with the Digital cam and same amount with the film SLR - but I have not done more than 20-30 enlargements and none beyond the A4 size. Most of the viewing is on my 22" computer monitor or TV. (As Dave has been proving the HS10 can very well achieve/exceed that, I have not liked the images from SX30 too much so far but should be good enough for the size).
- I have a daughter of 7 and I like to shoot her movies - the 1000D doesn't do movies - the next DSLR that does is beyond my budget. Of HS10 and SX30 - SX30 may lead here but HS10 doesn't have any "can't do" to my knowledge.

I do want to buy a DSLR and I am sure it will be a great experience but for now I am convinced HS10/SX30 will serve me fine for the next 4/5 years till get bored and ready for next upgrade. I want to take this middle step because it is cheaper and for taking pictures it is as flexible as a DSLR with better reach. The purpose of my post was/is to know if I was/am missing out something completely. The decision is now between SX30 and HS10, I was hoping for reviews of both on same site - a site that can be trusted but it appears HS10 review on Camera-labs is not possible - Dave has filled that gap through his various detailed posts to convince HS10 is a notch above.

Please do let me know if I am wrong in any of my assumptions or way of thinking.

Thanks a lot again for your time.

Hi tej,

In your budget of INR 25k, the HS10 may fit in, but the Canon 1000D with anything beyond its basic lens won't.

If you don't view your photos at 100% magnification and shoot in good/favourable lighting conditions, I doubt you will see much difference between pictures taken with a 1000D or HS10. The HS10 can do some things the 1000D won't be able to without really good lenses, and that is an excellent macro mode and ability to use spot metering. Unless I am much mistaken, the 1000D doesn't have an option for spot metering.

Since you have used a film SLR, you would love the manual zoom ring on the HS10, and may find the powered zoom on the SX30 sluggish, particularly if you consider the time it takes to go from wide angle to full telephoto, and also the limited number of stops it takes in between. However, most people find the manual focus ring on the HS10 inconvenient. Though, Dave can inform you better on this.

Seeing that you have used a 3.2MP/3x camera for so long, maybe the HS10 can last you 4-5 years, but in this fast growing digital electronic world, I'd get bored a lot faster! A year ago, 12MP for DSLRs was good resolution, but now 16-18MP is good, and 14MP is standard, or practically the lowest! At this pace, technically a camera gets "outdated" every year or couple of years. When it does, you sell/throw your HS10 with the lens. In case of DSLRs, lenses are lifetime investments. So, if you have to sell the body, you don't have to reinvest in lenses unless you are planning to change a manufacturer, which is again extremely unlikely. My point, in short, is that what appears very expensive at first sight may not be so in the long run.

As for movies, all cameras can be equally good/disappointing. Disappointing because there is usually autofocus problem. Also, most cameras can't deal with fast moving subjects and quick panning.

Hope this helps,
Jinay.

_________________
A picture is worth a thousand words, but a photograph should make you say just one - "WOW!"

Canon EOS 550D + 18-55mm Kit Lens + Canon 75-300mm III USM + Filters.
Panasonic Lumix FZ35

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdm_01/

Jinay - Thanks for the nice comments.... But as my Nana used to say, 50 years ago - "The Truth will out...!"

That is - I'm no Capital-P "Photographer", and at 62 now, might never be one...

I do Snaps when I'm experimenting and having fun - and Pix when trying to do some that friends might like. My idea of "success" is getting a cheesey-grin from my mid-teens godson, and a "Neato, Unky-Dave!" Even when the image certainly wouldn't turn dear old Ansel Adams green with envy...!

At times - and they'll be "sort-of-bests" from 4GB-Cards-full of "odd results" - I'm now getting, among the Snaps, some Pix - and realising - it certainly isn't "me" - what I'm learning, is how to "tell the HS10 what to do".

The HS10 is a pretty amazing camera - but it isn't an easy-to-use-P&S. I'm realising, now - that it can still do rather better than I'm yet able to do with it.

Whatever "Fuji-isms" Fuji has done with this camera - and it certainly has a few! - staying with 10Mpix on the 1/2.3 BSI-CMOS sensor seems to have been a good one. Putting the 'electricals' on the back, and at "only" 10Mpix - seems to have given the HS10 quite good low-light and high-ISO abilities.

Getting "usable" - if reduced below 1600 x 1200 - if certainly not printable - ISO-6400 images on dull days, at 30x optical or virtual-60x digital - images from a tiny-sensored P&S device, isn't quite what you'd expect. And it will do that with JPEGs...

I have much yet to learn about this device!

As for the Canon SX30... Ummm, it does beautiful Videos! And it looks very neat and is easy to use. But - visible noise starting to creep in, on a fine day, at ISO-200 - and really there, at 400... Sure - for snaps to share around at 1024 x 768 - nobody's going to notice.

But at ISO-800 it's saying, "Hi - I have 14-Million receptors on a CCD the size of a piece of confetti - a 15th the size of a crop-body sensor - and I'm not very happy about that!"

And at ISO-1600 - while it doesn't hang-up an "Out to Lunch" sign, it might as well...

With the HS10 - ISO 800 and 1600 are still in your "ordinary pix" range - dull days, deep-shade, indoors lighting without flash - at 1600, switch to RAW + JPEG... Later - look at the JPEGs to see which RAWs are worth doing - and be gentle on the de-noising.

But the SX30 "eats" the HS10 for Video functions and controls - stills, it seems to be the other way around. Not having RAW, these says, at the around-$500.00 end of the P&S price-range seems to be a boo-boo on Canon's part.

And the 1.3fps max Continuous - slower than the SX10's 1.4fps - is just plain-woeful! Users only need a day or two of zapping moving targets in Shutter Priority or Manual at 10-7-5fps - to get used to the idea. From then on - any camera you pick up, without it, feels "something missing"...
And that includes my still much-beloved SX10...


Tej - Sure, the Canon 1000D will "do" better images than the HS10 - or any others of the P&S range - it has about 15-times the sensor size, to start with. Then just add a Wide-end lens, a Mid-Ranger, and a Tele-Zoom. The "usable" consumer-end tele-zooms start at about $300.00 for Sigma's 70-300mm DG APO...

So even an entry-level body and 3 basic lenses won't leave much change out of $1,500.00.

I've been doing the sums for well over a year... The HS10 was "nearly" a Pentax K-X and Sigma 17-70mm as "kit" walkaround lens. That combo, only $300.00 more than the HS10. Which wouldn't - quite - have collapsed the bank.

But, I went HS10 because I didn't really know enough to use a DSLR properly. And there were rumours of a "new-improved" K-X, even then.

Also - the HS10 is similar in size, shape, zoom, external buttons / command-dial, and MF ring functions, to a DSLR. For "getting used to that".

Still going DSLR? Certainly! Pentax K-R - certainly. Because Canons and Nikons are "no-good"? Of course not - both brands do excellent devices.

The entry-level Pentaxes are good value for money - and for those on limited fixed-incomes - there's a vast array of film-era SLR lenses around. I have several already. To go with the Sigma 17-70mm I'll buy with it. Starting with an SMC - latest version - Takumar (Asahi-Pentax) - f/1.8 55mm as the 82mm - on that body - prime.

Given to my landlord as a gift in 1974 - along with a Spotmatic body and other lenses he found he couldn't use - and packed away - until he heard me talking about Pentaxes 36-years later... "Oh, I might be able to dig out some old Pentax stuff from the storeroom you might find a use for..."

That one, and the push-pull zoom 80-210 Tamron macro, etc - all immaculate - are screw-mount - and some others I picked up for very little, are K-mount - the old series Sigma 100-300, so on... The latter will "do a turn" while I'm saving for the Pentax 55-300 ED.

As I'll still have the HS10 - between them I won't run out of zoom...

Regards to Both, Dave.