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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:32 pm 
Arshron - Gordon can't Review any Camera unless somebody sends him one to Review...

Yes, the HS10 is very much being "hyped" - and as now it's on sale, and there are still no reviews, even from other, lesser, sites - I'm starting to wonder why...

While the "specs and data" for the HS10 do indeed look good, there are some questions about IQ in the second half of that 30x Zoom... Most "Sample Images" I've seen have been at the "Wide End" of that Zoom Range.

Also, it's using a new-type BSI sensor that hasn't been scoring well in other cameras.

And it's selling suspiciously "cheaply" here in Sydney - nowhere near the AUD$800.00+ predicted. There's a very big jump-down between a shopfront predicted AUD$800.00+, and the actual advertised AUD$559.00.

Indeed it's selling for less than Canon's older-design SX20 - which is 20x Zoom, only about 1fps Continuous, and does 1280 x 720 Video, but not 1920 x 1080.

So I'm now sitting back and waiting until there is a LOT more information, reviews, etc, available on the HS10.

Dave.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:33 am 
Hi,
Seriously speaking, there were more reviews on the s200exr than the hs10, which does become suspicious considering the hype. Some people actually find it a disappointment after the s200exr, with actually worse iso performance. In any case, i wonder how fuji will sell this camera without any reviews!
Jinay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:19 am 
hi

I dont know but some personal reviews which I have read about hs10 are disappointing. Here in India its priced at 30 thousand INR which is 600 US Dollar. Since this is going to be my first super zoom camera therefore i am not willing to buy before reading reviews. If canon sx1 would have not been discontinued in India then I would have purchased it right away before giving it another thought. But please dear members help me in buying a good camera.

Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:09 am 
Jinay - It's starting to be a bit "funny" - with the HS10 now on sale here in Sydney - just 10-weeks after the announcement, and still no Reviews, particularly ones that show IQ over about 10x into that 30x Zoom range... Even Fuji doesn't seem to show any samples past the lower end.

However, before the shop-release here, I thought I'd be comparing the HS10 at AUD$800.00+ with the Pentax KX and kit Pentax 18-55mm and 50-200mm lenses at $849.00. (We don't get the US kit with Pentax 18-55mm and 55-300mm for very little more.)

But now, with the shop price in Sydney just on AUD$300.00 less than that KX kit - that creates a different type of "choice". It puts the HS10 below the prices of the other 'better' long-zoom Bridge cameras - and way below any Entry-level DSLR kits here.

From talking by phone to the shop (where I bought my Canon SX10) - they say I could get an HS10 for about AUD$500.00 - if I buy some cards, batteries, so on, at the same time.

Of course - I'm comparing with the SX10 - that is, what does the HS10 do that the SX10 doesn't...? It does do both Std and Full HD Video, which the SX10 doesn't. And does have the Manual Zoom - which they say works well with the Video. It has the 7 full-frame shots at 10fps speed - the SX10 does 1.4fps. It has "sweep panorama" in the camera - the SX10 has "join them later" panorama.

The SX10 has excellent IQ for a P&S - and while it softens a bit out at 20x, use a tripod and it can be pretty good. (The camera is still better than I am at this stage, so I'm not getting "the best" from it... Certainly not as good as some results I've seen posted.)

So for JPEGs I do have a pretty good P&S anyway. But the SX10 doesn't do RAW (well, it can if hacked...) - while the HS10 does. From User images of the HS10 using RAW and JPEG, it seems that the RAWs PP'd with the supplied software (I'd be using DigiKam, Photoshop 7, etc, in Linux) - do look a lot better than its JPEGs. So I'd at least be learning a bit about RAW with it, before getting a DSLR later.

So - even if the HS10 isn't too good with the JPEGs at long zoom (and one might be able to do better with its RAWs, even so) - does it "do enough" things that the SX10 doesn't do - to be worth the "new low price" of AUD$500.00 or so? (That's around US$450.00.)

As I'm just doing Hobby-level - and we don't print-out, so the Images are just shared-around or converted to Slide-Shows (using Imagination in Linux - add music or voiceovers - then outputs in MPEG2 to create TV-Player DVDs) - images that are "sharp with good colour", if nothing like DSLR level, are quite adequate.

The HS10 does seem to do enough things that the SX10 doesn't - particularly the 2 levels of HD Video with Manual Zoom, native RAW and RAW+JPEG, and the 7/10fps, so on, that it would be worth $500.00 or so - as a device complementing the SX10's abilities.

That the HS10 uses the same SD/SDHC cards and Eneloop AAs the SX10 and old S2000HD (now left in carry-bag as a P&S device) - is also quite convenient.

Unless the Reviews - when they appear - really "bucket" the HS10 - it seems to be buyable, to complement what I already have with the SX10.

Then I can start saving again for whatever replaces the Pentax KX (will it be the K-5?) - later this year...

PS:- The SX10 has an inbuilt Teleconverter - and the 1.4x level does "recognisable" images at a "virtual" 28x. Use a tripod, on a fine day - and reduce them to 1024 x 768 or under - and they're "usable" if you can't get the shots any other way. Maybe at a similar 30x, the HS10 direct optical images aren't much better... Or, it'd be quite hilarious if the SX10 using TC-1.4x at virtual 28x - was as good or better.... :shock:

Dave.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:02 am 
Hi everyone,
I manage to find a lot of user opinions in past few days since first HS10’s were delivered in USA and UK. From all “good and bad” I concluded that fuji obviously rushed this one out. Seems that, as one user on forum wrote, they probably did last minute firmware update - so camera has a lot of issues and small bugs until you reset to factory settings. After this thing go smoothly. Even write speeds improve after this
Also it seem you can’t use whatever batteries you want.
You can check forums at DPpreview (is it ok to post other sites :roll: )
Even write speeds improve after this
Photos I saw looks good, some even great.
I found “unboxing” video on camera town and review should be posted by the end of this week.
This will be the first one I believe.
For now there are several user reviews on Amazon.
Waiting for the review ….. 8)
BR
Drago


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:37 am 
Hi,
Arshon, if your need for a camera is not immediate, maybe you should wait for the latter half of the year for Panasonic and Canon to launch their models, unless we can get some reasonable reviews for this one. If you are looking at a very high end superzoom, maybe you could also consider dslr options.
Oldwarbler, I am not sure if raw would work out that well. If the noise at iso200 is true, then there would be so much more noise in raw pics! Will they even be usable without noise reduction software? If noise reduction loses the fine details, raw won't hold much good. All said and done, the Pentax k-x seriously challenges the iq of Canon 500d and Nikon D5000 with hd movie option and a real loot price, not to mention the 2 lens kit, both of them of good quality, and inbuilt is! Maybe it actually is worth the extra over the Fuji, or even a little more that that!
Jinay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:56 am 
Jinay - Of course any DSLR is going to beat any P&S/Bridge camera on IQ - even with the kit lenses... I'm well aware of that.

However with the 2 levels of HD Video (I only really need the 1280 x 720, but the Full-HD would be interesting to play with) - and manual zoom with Video, that makes the HS10 attractive at Hobby-level.

With that small Sensor size, as you say, I suspect doing RAW will also be Hobby-level, and just "learning how to do it". But - at ISO 80 or 100, in good light - and light tends to be "bright" in daytime here, there might be "some" improvement over its JPEGs. Fuji cameras tend to be pretty heavy-handed on the JPEG noise reduction - the S2000HD certainly is...

From what I've read - if a camera does RAW and JPEGS, the JPEGs get the in-camera noise-etc processing as the camera converts from "the RAW it saw" to JPEG, and the RAW is left as "what the camera recorded". Or perhaps the more Advanced folk might correct me on that?

The Pentax KX is actually better in low light than the twice-the-price K-7, from what I've seen on another Forum. And for functions is being compared with the Nikon D90 - which might be a little 'hopeful" - but it's an excellent Entry-level DSLR, if with a few "issues".

We do have a problem here with kit-lenses. In the US there's a kit with the Pentax 18-55 and 55-300 lenses, for little more than the one with the 50-200. That 55-300 is the base model with plastic mount, though it has the same optics as the metal mount one.

Here we get the KX with Pentax 18-55 and 50-200 for AUD$849.00, but not the one with the Pentax 55-300. To sort-of "compensate" we get offered a kit with the Pentax 18-55 and the low-end Sigma 70-300mm - also for AUD$849.00.

And no, you can't "pay the difference" and get the better Sigma 70-300 DG APO version. If you want that - get the KX with Pentax 18-55 for $739.00 - then, separately - get the Sigma 70-300 DG APO for AUD$300.00.

So you then ask - is the Pentax 55-300mm a better lens - particularly to use with a 1.4-1.5x Teleconverter (to get some more reach for birds, animals, etc, over the 450mm equiv. that lens is on the KX body....?

Apparently, yes, it's better through the full range than the Sigma. But you can't get that lower-cost Pentax 55-300 "over the counter" - it's only with the US kits.

We certainly can get the "better" metal mount version of that Pentax 55-300mm here - the Pentax 55-300mm f/4-5.8 DA ED, but it's AUD$670.00 (US$615.00) - which means I'd have to go with the Sigma 70-300 DG APO.

DSLRs on a shoestring are a bit awkward - I've even considered just going for the 2-lens kit we get here - then hoping some "nice longer lenses" from the Film-SLR era turn up on our Gumtree Auctions site... While being manual, at least the Pentaxes do stabilise those...

Dave.


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 Post subject: first reviews
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:11 am 
this is the first one....
http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/ ... 10_review/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:52 am 
Dkacunic - Thanks for that!

Dave.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:06 am 
Hi,
Thanks for the first full review! However, it doesn't seem as good as it sounds. It mentions all positives except the motion panorama ghost problem. It feels too good to be true. Noise *after* iso400 should be great for a non-dslr, but then why were some users disappointed? It mentions that in-camera jpegs were a little soft, but there is no comment on the iq after in-camera sharpening. What about raw photo quality and noise? There is no head to head comparison as yet. It mentions stabilization is good, but no comment regarding how many stops. Image quality is supposed to be good, but what compared to entry level to mid-range dslrs? How is the colour accuracy? It is a problem faced by all bsi-cmos cameras. And the most important - why did the prices crash if all was so good? Why were there no reviews as yet for such a hyped camera?
I would definitely want to know how if the dslrs are worth a couple of hundred dollars over this!
Jinay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:23 am 
Jinay - HS10 "Sharpness" is Hard/Standard/Soft - Page 83 in the Manual. That's the same as the S2000HD.

(The Canon SX10 has 5 Level settings on each of Contrast, Saturation, Skin Tone and Sharpness.)

As for the Review - a bit of a mixed-bag - both the Camera and that Review....

Any Camera with 30x / 720mm-equiv Zoom is going to spend some of its life on a tripod. Whether for long shots or video-setups. So why have a Plastic tripod-mount screw-thread...? Just like the El-Cheapo S2000HD, in fact. If you look closely at the S2000's underside, the thread seems to be made into a recessed replaceable item, with a couple of tiny screws.

Maybe later versions of the HS10 should come with a plastic-bag of a dozen spare Plastic replaceable thread-inserts and a tiny screwdriver. However, one might guess that using a metal tripod-mount in the first place - like the Canon SX10 - might be cheaper than that...

As the HS10 is apparently made in Indonesia, Fuji seems to be cutting costs wherever it can.

We still know little about the IQ at mid and maximum Zoom - the only Images showing a 24mm and 720mm comparison are the size of postage-stamps.

The Review says the HS10 Videos are Motion-JPEG (MJPEG) - the Fuji User Manual clearly says they are H264/MOV... So the Reviewers didn't do a short piece of Video and look at it in a Video application... Or look at the Manual, Page 130.

Even with HDR becoming more popular, they haven't defined whether the Auto Exposure Bracketing spreads to the available -/+ 2EV - or like the S2000HD is limited to +/- 1EV. (The Canon SX10 does its full +/- 2EV in AEB.)

While the Review does say that the full-frame 10fps Continuous shooting just saves 7 shots (in JPEG) - it doesn't say how many can be saved at the 7fps, 5fps, and 3fps modes. 15 shots saved in 3-seconds at the 5fps speed might be better than the "fastest" - if it can be set to do that - for some purposes.

The Reviewers say that they used the "maximum 10 Megapixel JPEGs" setting for all Tests. That's nice..., but were the Saves at "Normal" or "Fine" compression? (The S2000HD "defaults" to Normal - but there is an observable difference at the Fine setting.) The HS10 Manual quotes Card Saving capacity in the JPEG "Normal" mode.

So - while we do need some more - and better - Reviews, the HS10 is looking like an interesting Hobby-Toy to complement a Canon SX10's functions with...

That it isn't meant to be a "High-End" Bridge Camera is hinted-at by the AUD$250.00+ price reduction at shop-sales release here - and the awful "Plastic" tripod-mount screw-thread says it rather more firmly....

Do wonder what the Shop would charge to fit a metal tripod-mount, if that is possible - or provide a bag of spare Plastic ones...

Dave.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:25 am 
Hi,
Went through some Amazon user reviews. Totally mixed! Rating from 1 to 5 stars with am average of 3. And even seeming pros have different opinion! Looks like reviews may be different, too.
Jinay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:42 pm 
I bought mine.
499.99$ CAD here.

I have to say that I'm really really dispointed.

Body quality and ergo is awesome, screen is nice and the menu really rock.

BUT, image quality is really not what I was expecting from a 500$ camera.
Seriously, only in auto mode, I took 150 pictures.

Interior picture, great light.
I can't say that I took one great picture.

All of them have something, noise, blury etc and that is at 0X zoom.
So I started playing in the manual mode to try to get a good shot ...
Even at 100iso I get alot of noise.

So after 200 picture, I returned it to the shop, I was refund.

I'm now going the reflex way, you can't beat a bigger sensor.

Seriously, my 4 year old Lumix point and shoot take better picture.

The HS10 look more like a little point and shoot fitted with a massive 30X zoom and some high end setting/option. The spec on paper looked really great but in practice it's another story.

Thats my opinion, but I think I'm at a point that I will put the 200$ more to get some real image quality.

The D5000 will be my next camera.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:45 am 
Hi Untenjigutsu,
Hey, just out of curiosity, what is the model no. of your 4 year old Lumix p&s? I also have a Lumix dmc lz2 which I got almost exactly 4 years ago, and must say, all in all it is a great camera of its time! Though, technology progresses.....
Jinay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:38 pm 
Humm the camera is now at my job, I use it for this purpose now.
I will check this out this week.

It's a basic point and shoot and it take pretty nice picture.

I just bought my D5000, image quality is amazing, had a great deal in a local shop :D


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