Camera Labs

Hi.
I'm still hoping for some free time tomorrow...(fingers crossed)
We had great sunny time, but since I picked up my camera it is cloudy and windy – not ideal for going out .
You must be patient for a while...
But of course I manage to find some time to „turn it on“...
I will try to import 1080p and 720p clips in Adobe AE, and see... i have notebook, C2D, 2,53 ghz, 4 gb ram... It should be OK for editing.
I took few RAW's last night at home. Poor lightning in A mode, ISO 100-800. Not so bad for handheld shots (I was to lazy to search for tripod in basement). I will post some photos when I get home. But I must say I did not notice some extreme delays between the shots. Camera freezes for 1 sec. (not near few seconds like reported on some forums).
I did not notice any battery problems. I’m still on Fuji’s that came with camera. I shoot around 100 photos and 5 videos…. I just bought Panasonic 2700 mAh rechargeable so I will report on those after weekend.
I have Kingston 4GB class4 card + 16Gb Trans. class10 card (which I will use over weekend as well)
(for now I'm using 4gb class4)
I hope weather will be nice this weekend - my cousin is getting married so there should be plenty indoor and outdoor images, videos nice details and opportunity to test HS10 pretty well.

_________________
BR
Drago

Dkacunic - It will be interesting to find out if the 1280 x 720 really is "better" than the 1920 x 1080 - or, were they just having "slow PC" problems with the Full-HD...?

As you have both Class-4 and Class-10 cards, you'll be able to see if there's any difference between "Saves" - particularly the RAW + JPEG so many have mentioned - to Class-10 after trying Class-6.

There are good and bad User Reports of the HS10's CD Software handling the RAW files - so a more reliable Report on that will be very welcome.

Best Wishes for the Wedding Shoot - hope the weather is fine and clear for your HS10's first good workout...!

Edit: - What will you be editing the HD Video files with?

Dave.

Hi Oldwarbler

I noticed that 1080p video is not so good even on the 3“ camera screen – I saw jerky lines even while slow panning at 24mm. After that I start recording in 720p and video looked much better. I use my notebook for HD video before (Fifth Element, LOTR EE – all in 1080p connected to 42“ Philips series 9000 LCD) and there was no problem or stops during playback. If notebook is slow I will try to edit video on other computer – 3,5 ghz C2D, 4 gb, - this should definitely be enough for HD.
I will check bitrates and compression when I get home. I will edit in Adobe After Effects.

For RAW I instaled SilkyPix pro - but since I'm "fresh user" I will need to play with it to master all options

_________________
BR
Drago

Hi Dkacunic,

With the SilkyPix, could you please check the number of bits the RAW file is saved as? Also, Adobe can't seem to handle HS10 RAWs. If you get a chance, and more importantly time, please try it.

On a different note, CameraLabs is now on Facebook and Twitter. Its on the off-topic section!

Jinay.

_________________
A picture is worth a thousand words, but a photograph should make you say just one - "WOW!"

Canon EOS 550D + 18-55mm Kit Lens + Canon 75-300mm III USM + Filters.
Panasonic Lumix FZ35

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdm_01/

Hi.
For now
please check

http://picasaweb.google.hr/111700075585 ... rStarters#

jinay, I made print screen of silkypix window..I cannot see bit info in INFORMATION window.
Images are converted from RAW, no adjustments, and resized to 800x600 in faststone.
cloudy, windy day.
more to come after saturday...

_________________
BR
Drago

hi,
I loaded short 720p clip (48 seconds) in Adobe AE and converted it to Xvid (H264codec) I took about 15minutes on my 2,5ghz C2D, 4bgram laptop (I was runing on battery). Converted avi file is 36MB -original file was 65 MB. I think that you can get smaler files but since I just started with Adobe AE it will take some time to find all the options and learn how to use it.

_________________
BR
Drago

Dkacunic - You have an Adobe program that converts Video into Xvid4? Very interesting to know that they're catching-up!

The XS10 (as the Canon SX1 and SX10 do) - saves to H264/MOV files. Apple's MOV container is for some reason used as the carrier, making a very large file-size. You can remove the MOV container, and be left with the very much smaller H264 file - which has the *.avi extension. That said, results for conversions seem to be better (with my SX10's MOV files) - when the conversion is done with the Filename.mov files from the camera. That also seems to be so when I have converted sample 1920 x 1080 SX1 video, and 1280 x 720 SX20 video.

The H264 AVC (Advanced Video Codec) - format is a proprietary one developed by Sony, Panasonic, etc. It's a subset of the MPEG4 series. There's also AVC-HD.

Xvid was a split away from DivX about 10 years ago. DivX went on to be a successful proprietary format, while Xvid was continued as an OpenSource project, and, while being available (when the codecs and player are installed) - in Windows, it has become the "default" MPEG4 subset in Linux.

The current version, Xvid4, is thought by many to be the best format in MPEG4's *.avi extension subsets. Some think that Xvid4, due to its OpenSource development, is a completely "free format" to use. While it is for private personal PC-etc home use, for commercial and/or profit-making purposes, it's still part of MPEG4.

The actually free video formats are Theora (*.ogg - Vorbis is the audio part, Theora the video) - and Matroska. Neither Theora or Matroska are in very wide use yet - I use mostly use Xvid4 for video other than compliant *.mpeg / MPEG2 used for creating TV-player DVDs.

H264 is a later development, also part of MPEG4. H264 is a proprietary format, and isn't the same as Xvid4. H264 is a more compressible video version than any of the other MPEG4 subsets, and for that reason can be "heavy work" on other than late-model PCs.

If you want an easy video-converter while learning the complexities of those big Adobe programs, you can use Windows version Avidemux. That can handle H264/MOV well - all from 640 x 480, and 1280 x 720 to 1920 x 1080. It converts directly to many formats (use the 2-Pass mode to keep audio-etc in sync) - including std MPEG4, Xvid4, and DVD-compliant *.mpeg(2). Use "DVD (lavc)" under the Video Menu for that.

Dave.

hi,
I uploades few more photos and one video on picasa...
link: http://picasaweb.google.hr/111700075585 ... 05SomeMore

_________________
BR
Drago

Dkacunic - Good to see those images, thanks!

Have you heard of any program yet that can open and edit the HS10's "unique" RAW files, other than the very basic Fuji software on the CD that comes with the camera? Apparently that doesn't "edit" anyway - just converts them into TIFF or JPEG.

Do you know if that program runs in Windows 2000? If so I can run Windows 2000 in Virtual-Box in Linux and at least get TIFFs with that.

I've read that the only other program that can handle the HS10 RAFs is SilkyPix Pro - which is US$250.00 or so....

What's actually needed is something that converts HS10 RAFs to DNG. Most programs can handle that - including Digikam and UFRaw in Linux.

However, so far at least, not even Adobe's 'RAW' to DNG converter can use the HS10 RAFs.

Dave.

I'm using SilkyPix (only newest version supports hs10) and I did not try it with any other program...but I will as sson as I get some free time.

one more note-- HS10 loves light, plenty of it...
i'm beginig to learn silkypix, and camera so I'm expection better and better photos

_________________
BR
Drago

I was at the camera store today, and got to look over the HS10. Its not to bad. But its not super or anything. It has its issues, many have been talked about here by others.

But there was one thing that I was looking at that I wanted to pass along. Its true that the zoom will go out to 720mm, and thats nice. BUT, its very hard to hand hold, and the IS/VR only works so well. I took a shot accross the street, and ran it all the way out to 720mm. And took a few shots. On first look, it was OK, but on further inspection, it was not as sharp as one would like. Granted it was on auto, and I did not have time to fool with any manual settings. This was a quick drive by.
So, while I feel that IS/VR has some good points when it comes to cameras like these, one must look past the high dollar ads to what you are really going to be getting. And why you plan on doing with the prints. (Is a slight blur OK, stuff like that)
But the things that I really did like were 1. The zoom was manual, and its nice to have that control. And same batt power to boot. 2. And there is a manual focusing ring there too. That looks good.

Its a nice camera, do not get me wrong. I guess that time will tell if its really worth the 500 dollars (US) that they are asking for it.

The view finder was pretty sharp. Better than some others I have seen.

I am sure that it will serve some people very well. Heck, I have even thought about it. It has its good points.

_________________
Rob

Rob.k - Just as a test, get a Canon SX10, put it in 1.4x Teleconverter mode, which gives a 'virtual' 28x. The IS on the SX10 is good. Now try some hand-held shots (not for 'good IQ', with the TC) - just to test for camera-shake. Now try it on a tripod....

As a second test - get a DSLR with a 700mm lens (the sort where you get both DSLR and lens for US$500.00.... ) - and try that, IS on, but hand-held... Then try it on a tripod.

Just having a bit of a Tease, of course...

The HS10 has not a hope in the Hot-Place of comparing with a DSLR on IQ at 30x / 700mm+. It isn't going to do that at the Wide End or In-Between, either. Backlit Sensor or not - the size is a fraction of even entry-level DSLR Sensors.

If any Prosumer Zoom Camera at 20-30x or around 500-700mm equivalent, for US$350-500.00, came within a bull's-roar of what a DSLR with a 500 or 700mm lens can do, sales for hobbyist-enthusiast (non-pro users) - Entry-Level DSLRs would plummet!

Even with the SX10 at its maximum optical zoom of 20x, images, using IS and hand-held are just "okay" as Snapshots. Put the SX10 in Aperture Priority or Manual, IS off, on a tripod - and from mid-high to max 20x zoom, the IQ improves a lot. It is, of course, never going to compete with any DSLR - but the difference is very noticeable.

When the Optical Zoom goes over 700mm to 30x - as with the HS10 - it isn't too realistic to expect pin-sharp images hand-held at 30x... Anything much over 20x hand-held will either be a "usable snap" - if at reduced size - or is 'tripod territory', when it still won't even nearly match a DSLR.

The HS10 is a User-Level Snaps Camera - that has a lot of interesting Functions. And with Continuous 7-frames at 10fps, RAW, and more, it's quite a lot of fun for AUD$559.00...

And yes - as mentioned earlier in the thread - I've been looking seriously at the Pentax K-X. Which in Sydney is AUD$725.00 with the kit 18-55 lens. We don't get the US kit with that lens and the very low cost L series 55-300mm lens.

So for a reasonable quality lens with some reach - it'd be the Pentax DA ED 55-300 - which is AUD$670.00 here. That's a vastly better setup for IQ than the HS10. But it'd cost around AUD$1,400.00.

Worth it, for an over-60 learner on a very limited (disability) income? Sure - of course it would be. Even the 1.4x TC to take the 450mm out to 630mm, would be, and the images would still be better than the HS10 at that equiv.

But that's another $300.00, too. Total - AUD$1,700.00+ - about 3.5 times the price of an HS10.

Sometimes, situations can arise where getting out and having a lot of fun with a camera - as I've been doing with my SX10 - can override the obviously much better results to be obtained with a DSLR.

And yes - I'm going back to the "long save" for a DSLR after the HS10... Possibly the K-5 or whatever replaces the K-X - or fits between it and the K-7.

Regards, Dave.

Hi,

Sorry for the late reply. I saw the HS10 at a store, and it looked surprisingly small for what I had imagined. From reviews, whatever there are, I make out that the HS10 is certainly a great superzoom with perhaps one of the best ultrazoom lens around and great software features which actually work. The only "sad" part is that it doesn't come even close to competing with any DSLR whatsoever. But, surprisingly, it seems to lock on noise performance against accomplished superzooms like the Panasonic FZ35, let alone Fuji's own S200EXR. The prices in India certainly seem very attractive in India. However, while the Fuji HS10 retails for 24K here, the Pentax K-x retails for 27K with kit lens. So, I feel tempted to the DSLR market more and more given the attractive deals, despite the HS10 taking a price dip and making a very good deal in itself.

And MOST importantly, Dkacunic, thank you for all your time and the effort you took for us. I hope it wasn't too much trouble.

Jinay.

_________________
A picture is worth a thousand words, but a photograph should make you say just one - "WOW!"

Canon EOS 550D + 18-55mm Kit Lens + Canon 75-300mm III USM + Filters.
Panasonic Lumix FZ35

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jdm_01/

Hi
No trouble at all
I will post some more photos (camera jpeg) later today.
Also.
One more thing (tip) for owners. ..During HD video playback on TV (via laptop) there was noticeable stutter and stops in video reproduction. I thought it was the camera, but simple update of QuickTime and/or VLC solve this problem
During this time with HS10 I can say it is a camera that needs time and loves your attention. If you make an effort and adjust camera for the specific scene you can get wonderful photos, but it can be total disaster as well if you do not know what are you doing (logically )

_________________
BR
Drago

Something random today...

I was out taking photos in the woods.... and on the dirt road i saw two ladies with there kids hiking... They BOTH had two brand new Fuji HS 10's haha

I soo want one as a backup to my DSLR.

_________________
"If I want a 'snapshot'... i will use my phone.."

My Photos:
http://mistycreek.deviantart.com/