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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:59 am 
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Hi folks,

Photozone have recently tested a number of native E-mount lenses on the NEX-7. Check out the reviews in the right hand column of this page.

Collectively that has to be just about the most horrible set of test results I can remember seeing. Ever! Klaus hasn't tested the Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 yet but reviews on that lens have generally been positive but as it stands Sony should hang their heads in collective shame. Until I saw those results I thought Sony had an E-mount lens system. Now I know better! :evil:

Bob.

Update: My initial reaction was that the lenses were solely to blame but the consensus seems to be that the sensor is to blame in that it isn't designed to accept the very oblique incoming light evident at the corners of the sensor. Probably a fair call so I've updated the thread title. No doubt the NEX-7 can perform much better using an adaptor for lenses non E-mount glass designed for a longer flange distance but that really rather negates the whole point of the NEX-7. Maybe Sony will correct the sensor issue and release an NEX-7N. Hope so

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
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Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


Last edited by Bob Andersson on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Updated as issue with NEX-7 may be sensor rather than glass driven.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:17 pm 
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To summarise the collective knowledge, basically there seems to be an issue with the 24MP sensor assembly in the corners, which shows up in photozone's (and other's) tests. This is believed to be due to the high pixel density, the filter assembly on top of it, and lack of correction in the corners e.g. Leica's use of offset micro-lenses. There is a claim that lower resolution sensors in the range can have higher absolute resolution in the corners, although lower in centre regions. As photozone's rating takes MTF as a high weighting, the corner performance really punishes the overall rating. Note where photozone measure "border" and "corner". For shallow depth of field use, you're unlikely to need sharpness there so this doesn't affect that use so much.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Hmm, me no understand! In the border a Sony 16mm f/2.8 can achieve 1829 LW/PH on a 16.1 MP sensor (5N) and 1105 LW/PH on a 24 MP sensor (7) which boasts about 22% greater linear resolution. A similar pattern can be seen at the wider angles of the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS. Well, I guess the collective wisdom must have a point because the only change is the sensor but boy has this destroyed my faith in Sony big time. What were they thinking? :evil:

Update: Well, I've been out with the dogs and spent some time trying to come to terms with the dreadful border performance most of those E-mount lenses are producing on the NEX-7 and I've failed. If real world border sharpness results were anything like so bad on, say, landscapes (and why wouldn't they be?) I'd want my money back. I am so glad I realised this issue existed - not one I've particularly seen flagged in any of the major reviews but maybe I've missed it. :oops:

Update 2: A Google search for "sony nex-7" microlens is instructive. I still can't imagine what Sony's engineers were thinking when they allowed this design through as it has rendered the NEX-7 completely useless so far as I am concerned.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Sounds to me as if the lenses are not to blame for the results, but instead the NEX7, or the 24MP sensor, or the design/output from it. Simply look at how much better the lenses are performing on the 5N, and it's clear there's an issue with the 24MP sensor and/or something in the design/throughput in that camera with those lenses.

I've only got two eMount lenses, but both produce lovely results on my 5N, comparable to some very good manual glass...especially the 55-210mm eMount, which is absolutely excellent for the money (on the 5N).

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Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 150-600mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony A6000 / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / 10-18mm F4 / 35mm F1.8 / 16mm F2.8 / via manual adapter, lots of Pentax K mount, Konica K/AR mount, and Leica M mount manual lenses

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http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Hi zackiedawg,

Fair call. I've updated the thread title and added an update to the initial post. But however you slice it as things stand the NEX-7 plus native glass is a dog if image sharpness right out to the corners is required. Maybe we'll see a "7N" before too long once word gets out about the "7". :twisted:

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Well, that would depend on how "pro" Sony considers its NEX-7 to be. Once you're used to higher-end cameras, you have to learn to live with the fact they aren't updated every eleven months or so, like Canon's Rebel/XX0D series...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:21 pm 
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PhotoZone just loves the E50mm on the Nex-7. I guess 4/5 stars is as good as it gets.

"A real highlight of the Sony lens is the quality of the bokeh which is among the very best that we've seen in this class so far. Portrait photographers will love this aspect!

Typical for Sony E lenses the build quality is very good thanks to a tightly assembled metal body including a metal focus ring. It is a "true" IF (internal focus) lens so it does not change its physical length during focus operations and the front element doesn't rotate either. The optical image stabilizer of the lens is certainly a sweet feature for low-light photography.

Priced at just under 300EUR/US$ it is not a cheap 50mm lens but considering the whole package, especially the image stabilizer, it's actually a pretty good deal. It will certainly sell like hot cakes! "


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:28 am 
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WestCoast wrote:
PhotoZone just loves the E50mm on the Nex-7. I guess 4/5 stars is as good as it gets...

Well, with an optical quality of two and a half stars I'm not convinced. If the images are soft near the borders then that's what you see on the screen or on a print, not the value or the build quality or anything else for that matter. :roll:

Update: The casual reader may think I'm just having a pop at Sony and while in a way I suppose I am it's because I feel incredibly frustrated. The NEX-7 was right at the top of my shopping list, pending any announcements by Canon or Leica, as a replacement for my now sold Canon 5D Mark II until I realised very late in the day that there is this corner softness issue. It seems as though Sony just failed to go the extra nine yards and add an offset microlens structure, a lesson that Leica learnt and implemented on the M9. Why I don't know but given the "semi-pro" pricing of the body I don't think that decision, if indeed that is the issue, is acceptable. Roll on the NEX-7N. 8) Please!

Update 2: Gordon's 5D Mark III review includes some NEX-7 imagery taken with the Carl Zeiss 24mm f1.8 lens which you can see here. The NEX-7 holds up very well in the corner with the mountain peaks so maybe the issue isn't entirely a sensor one and the non-Zeiss lenses really aren't good enough! :? It will be interesting to see the results should PhotoZone get hold of one of these lenses for test on the NEX-7.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:02 pm 
Bob,

You are indeed having a pop and that's as shameful as it is embarrasing to watch. And you're clearly biased.

You sound like those guys that can only bitch or whine about things you just love to hate. The NEX7 is a great product whether you like it or not. It's well built, solid, premium quality materials, light and performs really well. As to being semi pro, high end and all that mambo jambo: that comes from guys like yourself and every loser out there that thinks he has just reinvented photography.

I've lost count of how many rebels marks d'xxx have been put out there in the last 3 years. The NEX7 is fun to use, easy to carry, makes great quality videos and the image quality is second to none to any amateur camera out there.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Hi pedrixen,

Welcome to the forum.

All I can do is offer my own opinion and explain why I hold it. Until I read the PhotoZone lens reviews where the lenses were mounted on an NEX-7 (here) I had actually intended to buy an NEX-7, despite the lack of a native ultra wide-angle zoom, because I saw it as the perfect marriage of small size plus good ergonomics. I'm delighted that the NEX-7 works for you but I know for a fact that it wouldn't have worked for me with the poor corner resolution of the shorter focal length lenses, corner resolution that is so degraded that the NEX-5 actually does better than the NEX-7 according to the PhotoZone tests, a site I absolutely trust.

For many that poor corner resolution on the NEX-7 won't be an issue and some may not even realise there is a problem. Not for me I'm afraid as I'm more into landscapes than anything else when it comes to terrestrial photography.

By the way, your post was reported by another forum member as being offensive. I choose not to believe that was your intent, that you just wanted to strongly defend your chosen camera and that phrases like "you sound like those guys that can only bitch or whine about things you just love to hate" and "guys like yourself and every loser out there that thinks he has just reinvented photography" just slipped out in the heat of the moment. As a result I have closed that report with no further action to be taken but I hope in the future that you can upbraid me, if and when you see fit, without name calling.

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Bob, might be worth a look around at how the new lenses are going to perform. eMount has been really lighting up Photokina - aside from the new bodies, the new ultrawide Sony zoom, the new pancake standard zoom, the new 35mm F1.8 stabilized prime, and the 3 new Zeiss primes announced for eMount add to the 7 eMount and 3 third-party AF lenses for the eMount line. 17 AF eMount lenses now (not counting Sony's 3rd 18-200 iteration which is video specific) - and some of high quality presumed to be a good match for the rather demanding NEX7 sensor. Who knows: with Hasselblad now aboard the eMount too, might be some additional high-end lenses coming down the pike from them.

Personally, I still favor the 16MP sensor of the 5N for my own use, but it's nice to see so many new lenses now, and 3 more still on Sony's roadmap for 2013 plus hopefully more third party action from Sigma and Tamron.

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Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 150-600mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony A6000 / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / 10-18mm F4 / 35mm F1.8 / 16mm F2.8 / via manual adapter, lots of Pentax K mount, Konica K/AR mount, and Leica M mount manual lenses

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:50 pm 
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Hi Justin,

I agree. The new lens announcements are very welcome news. I'm not sure that Hasselblad will be developing any E-mount lenses themselves (but very nice if they did) but maybe, and this is pure speculation on my part, they have helped firm up Sony's pre-existing plans to flesh out the E-mount lens system as part of the newly announced partnership between Hasselblad and Sony.

Update: For those coming to this thread late it is worth mentioning that Sony have now introduced firmware v1.01 for the NEX-7 and that update promises to fix the IQ issue for wide angle lenses. The IQ issue I raised was primarily concerned with corner sharpness at wide angles so this thread may have helped, but just one voice among many, to get a fix implemented. :)

Bob.

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Olympus OM-D E-M1 + M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8, Lumix 7-14mm f/4, Leica DG Summilux 15mm f/1.7 ASPH, M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8, M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm 1:1.8.
Leica D Vario-Elmar 14mm-150mm f/3.5 - f/5.6 ASPH.
OM-D E-M5, H-PS14042E, Gitzo GT1541T, Arca-Swiss Z1 DP ball-head.
Astrophotography: TEC 140 'scope, FLI ML16803 camera, ASA DDM60 Pro mount.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:35 am 
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I agree with you on some points. The Sigma 30mm is very sharp. The two pictures below I took last year with the kit lens in NJ shore that is now crushed by hurricane sandy. In camera they looked awesome but then i realized they were crap when I got home. Thinking of selling and going back to d7000.
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Image


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