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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:10 am 
Sony HX5v vs. Panasonic TZ10 Side by Side Video Part 8
Part 8 Piedmont Park - Tom's Power Kite [720P] Daytime.

Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series comparing these two camera's video performance.

The individual clips will be posted for separate analysis.

Note - Take a look at the fast action image shadowing / ghosting in the Panasonic TZ10 / ZS7. Didn't notice this before because most of the footage was at normal speed. Sony appeared not to show this image shadow or ghosting.

Production Notes:

Panasonic TZ10 (1280x720 Quicktime MOV Format); and
Sony HX5v (1280x720 H.264/MPEG-4 AVC Format):

1. Daytime performance is similar, but slightly different.
2. Pay attention to color/contrast handling of each camera.
3. Also look at each camera's image stabilization steadiness.
4. Both have about the same trouble with wind noise.
5. When both clips are processed individually,
you'll be able to listen to thier audio tracks separately.
6. Each audio track is actually playing at the same time,
so their may be some echoing throughout.

* This video was rendered at 1280x720 @ 10Mbps.

The HD (1280x720P) video is available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CycUsRH32-o.

It may take some time for youtube to process the all versions of the video for viewing.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:30 am 
I've rendered each of the 8 Part video Side by Side clips separately, and will make them available here.

ImageImage

Sony DSC HX5v [1440X1080p @11.5Mbps]:

AVCHD Format:
Part 1: Centennial Park Atlanta Ga http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQzk49b4qbI
Part 2: Around Centennial Park Atlanta Ga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalcjIjQi9Q
Part 3: CNN Corner Atlanta Ga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYC8XUWk1oA
Part 4: GA Aquarium Sunset http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JV435WcLf4
Part 5: Atlanta Station - Pond and Monument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loFPd50CpCs
Part 6: Atlanta Station - Overpass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3nOrMB9bbA

MP4 Format:
Part 7: Piedmont Park - A Typical Day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rNYeC1Ztnk
Part 8: Piedmont Park - Tom's Power Kite [Pending]

Panasonic DMC TZ10 ZS7 [1280X720P @14.5Mbps]

AVCHD Format:
Part 1: Centennial Park Atlanta Ga http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjzNKGGHJR4
Part 2: Around Centennial Park Atlanta Ga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DnTcZsueJg
Part 3: CNN Corner Atlanta Ga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI-XQqAaJ7Y
Part 4: GA Aquarium Sunset http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoC-o_Lpd-g
Part 5: Atlanta Station - Pond and Monument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT8qsyOh6BQ
Part 6: Atlanta Station - Overpass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkttwaZsyEo

MOV Format:
Part 7: Piedmont Park - A Typical Day http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKs9JQRMW1Q
Part 8: Piedmont Park - Tom's Power Kite [Pending]


Production Notes:

These clips were rendered to their original resolutions as recorded from the camera. This video series totals 8 Parts.

The source clip's bit rates were determined by a media bit rate calculator, and may not be the same as advertised by the manufacturer. However, Panasonic does use the word "approximate" when providing there video recording bit rates.

No post production processing was performed, where only titles and production information were added.


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:18 am, edited 12 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:36 pm 
so Mike, read your fountain conclusion you send them both home and pass on this years models?
maybe the Samsung WB2000 might tickle your fancy


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:41 pm 
Perhaps because I already have camera on both ends of the spectrum from my point and shoot for photos: Panasonic TZ1 to my SLR, and for video can also use the TZ1 (old ccd based system as the new one), and my Canon XH-A1, I perhaps am able to pass on these cameras right now because my needs are being met.


But for someone who doesn't have either of these cameras, and is looking for a middle of the road device to capture their moments, they they will be left to the challenge to decide which camera best suits their needs.

I was happy to put the effort into preparing the video samples, because I noticed that the online material was very short, and really basic.

I took this on as both an personal interest project, and technical one, both were challenging and interesting.

I commend Gordon for his continued efforts to make this website resource available, and I'm sure this site will be my first stop when inquiring on other cameras. Or, as here, to contribute interesting tid bits along the way as an ethusiast.

I'll check out the model you suggested, but at this time I'm thinking that photo quality, image stabilization, and video resolution, all with good low light performance, will be on the top of my list of features to evaluate.

I find that my photo/video needs when out and about need to be in both day, and night time settings, and demand both photo and video as well.

Today's New Camara Consumer Challenges

I'd like to do an article on discussing the challenges consumers are facing today with the push of camera manufacturers towards the higher resolution video (HD cameras).

I've read several people having problems with simple playback of their content. AVCHD vs. MOV MP4 source clip formats, and then there is the issue of Software in terms of Media Management, Post Production enhancing, and Slideshow video production, and lastly Online and DVD presentation needs.

I think the old laptop from a couple of years ago is just not ready for this, and it opens up an entire new breed of consumers for the newer laptops with higher CPU speeds and graphical capabilities.

Not to mention the demands on quality software for editing and post production. Sure there are some mickey mouse programs out there that are drag and click, but I tried working with them, even at my level for "quicky" projects, but they are slow, and the rendering quality suffers.

Again, the "out of the box" material is going to be important for consumers, especially the bundled software that comes with the device.

Because at the end of the day, the last thing anyone is going to want to do is spend hours behind the computer for a video that will be watched every once and a while.

Future Outlook - In camera editing and final video rendering.

I think anothering thing to look for is in-camera processing, cropping, and then blending and final clip rendering of the clips/photos capture for that day. That way the end resulting "output" from the camera is one clean, seemless clip that is then stored on the computer.

This clip will then require no further editing (geo tagging, in-camera editing, etc.) and can then be dragged into a DVD burner for hard copy distribution.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:54 am 
MikesMultiMedia, with all your experience, analytical ability and enthusiasm, for both still photos and videos, I think you should consider writing a book to help folks to select the right cameras for their needs.

A big thank you for all your efforts


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:50 am 
thanks mikesmultimedia, gordon, zackiedawg and Gran... for your valuable informations regarding hx5, tz10... i have gone through almost all reviews, and forums to have clear picture of which megazoom pocketable camera to purchase :D but still am in dilemma :( :?: as Mikes says he will wait for TZ11... :roll:
my prioities are megazoom (10+ optical zoom), good picture and video quality (day+night)...HX5 attracts me for wonderful 1920X1080i, HHT, HDR, 10fps burst mode, panorama mode...but as said poor picture quality and poor night video performance...
TZ10 attracts for 12X zoom, 12MP and good day & night picture and video quality... but then with light streaks video 1280X720p only, poor pic quality at high ISOs.
I am to purchase one v.soon so will be grateful if you can compare both the cameras with their best settings i.e. in video tz10s 1280X720p vs. hx5 1920X1080i, high iso tz10 vs. hx5 HHT or AMB or HDR...in camera or post picture processings which will matter as the days progress with the life with camera from starter to experimenter/experter...to judge the final verdict as per the preferences... thanks all for sharing the invaluable information


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:21 pm 
Gordon, thank you for taking another HX5 out for a spin into the dark side.
Good show, jolly well done.
thanks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 815
Location: Boca Raton, FL, USA
Gordon,

Glad to see the additional tests...you're one of the first to really try to show how these modes really do offer an advantage in the compact camera field, and how they can be used in real-world shooting to help detail and reduce noise. I've been quite impressed with these modes myself.

Also, glad to see the HDR metering trick worked out! It really is in Sony's error for not offering any advice in the manuals on this one - very few folks who own these HDR capable cameras realize how to shoot for optimal results. I myself didn't know until I tried out a few different ways and stumbled upon the exposing for highlights. It's fairly clear the 2nd exposure in the 2-frame HDR mode is exposing for shadows, as I could clearly hear in my A550 how the 2nd frame was much longer when taking some HDR night shots. That's one of the things that helped me learn this.

_________________
Justin Miller
Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 150-600mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony A6000 / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / 10-18mm F4 / 35mm F1.8 / 16mm F2.8 / via manual adapter, lots of Pentax K mount, Konica K/AR mount, and Leica M mount manual lenses

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:32 pm
Posts: 9972
Location: Queenstown, New Zealand
Hi Joe, Hi Justin, glad you spotted the updates I posted yesterday! I'm going to officially announce them today.

Not sure if you've seen everything yet, but I ended up adding quite a lot to the original HX5 review. Here's what's new:

1: Updated HDR section on first page, including new shot taken with Justin's tips.

2: Updated High ISO Noise results page with new HHT and AMB comparisons (previously also seen on my Canon SX210 IS review).

3: Brand new results pages dedicated to more tests with Handheld Twilight and Anti Motion Blur modes, showcasing their benefits.

I hope you'll find these additions useful. Thanks for all your suggestions, and feel free to spread the word if you think others would find these updates interesting.

Gordon


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:22 pm
Posts: 120
Gordon the Sony HX5 update is excellent in its review of the HX5's special features. Thanks.

_________________
Frank


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:43 pm 
just wanted to let you know, that my first tests are popping up on the HX5 blog.

Image

Image

http://hx5v.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:07 pm 
Hello, I'm new to this forum looking to decide which one to get for my next super-zoom compact camera. I appreciate vast amounts of analysis by Mikemultimedia, Gordon and others, as they were very helpful, informative.

I'm really thinking hard between HX5V and ZS7, but none of them seems to be perfect. My ZS3 shows some color cast and low background brightness issue for indoor shots, which I am waiting for answer in ZS7 forum.

I got couple of questions on HX5V here. I saw that its battery drains much faster than ZS7 by some people here. Is that because of 1080i video recording? What if we compare them for only still shots or 720p videos?

Another one is about HHT performance for non-stationary objects. In the regular auto or program mode, HX5V picture doesn't seem any better than ZS7 under low light. They use different approach to high ISO noise, with HX5V being smoother but less detailed. I wonder how useful HHT or AMB mode is for people and slowly moving objects? If it's limited to stationary scenes, then its real life use is quite limited I think.


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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 815
Location: Boca Raton, FL, USA
I don't have the HX5, so I can't help on some of the battery questions and such. But I can give some idea on the HHT and AMB questions.

First off, AMB can indeed be used for moving subjects...that's precisely what it was designed for. How fast the subject is moving will dictate the quality you get. The camera takes 6 frames and stacks them, analyzing any areas from the first shot that have moved position and eliminating those areas from the stack. The end result is that much of the photo that was static will be a nice 6-shot blend with much reduced noise and better detail...while the moving subject within the photo will likely be from only 1 or 2 of the stacked shots, resulting in it being much noisier and granier than the surroundings...but not motion blurred. The less it moves, or the slower, the more that the stacking can add multiple frames in that area before the movement has shifted the color or light too much.

HHT is definitely more designed for static subjects, but it too can actually handle some minor movement...it will just blend it so if something was moving fairly quickly, you can get some ghosting of the moving subject.

Not using one of these two modes, the HX5 will behave pretty much like any other small sensor compact - it can handle higher ISOs than some, but will suffer from plenty of noise or noise reduction smearing at high ISO values. The noise reduction can sometimes be heavier than in other cameras - depends on the color in the shot. For general use like monitor display or small to regular prints, there's probably not much difference. Pixel-peeping or huge prints, the noisier shots might retain more detail.

_________________
Justin Miller
Sony DSLR-A580 / Sony 18-250mm / Minolta 50mm F1.7 / Sigma 30mm F1.4 / Tamron 10-24mm / Tamron 150-600mm / Tamron 90mm F2.8 macro / Minolta 300mm F4 APO
Sony A6000 / 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 / 55-210mm F4-6.3 / 10-18mm F4 / 35mm F1.8 / 16mm F2.8 / via manual adapter, lots of Pentax K mount, Konica K/AR mount, and Leica M mount manual lenses

Galleries:
http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg


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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:50 pm 
Thanks zackiedawg for your quick answer like expert,

You almost talk like you already had a lot of experience with HX5 even though you don't have it. But your explanation makes a lot of sense to me. I also saw that some guys at dpreview.com posted the images of night show people on the stage taken in AMB mode and they look very decent for low lighting. So this clears my concern on its use for non-stationary scenes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:17 am 
jinwons, welcome to the forum. We are glad you dropped by.

I have been using my Hx5v for about a month. I attended my niece's son's birthday the other day with a fully charged battery in my Hx5v which fully drained the battery after I took 180 still shots (no flash) and 25 minutes of total footage of multiple short HD video clips set at 1440p.

The answer to your suspicion regarding battery drain is yes, the battery in Hx5 seems to drain faster than others. I do not know the exact reason for that as I have not done any specific battery tests. However, my guess may be due to the 3" LCD screen, camera continually checking for GPS signal, camera continually checking for compass directions. I ended up buying 4 additional batteries and a 2nd battery charger for my out of country trip. Reason for buying a second charger is so that I can charge two batteries simultaneously versus a single charger as I do not fancy waking up every hour at night to swap battery unless I have a baby to feed every hour

Before I decided on the Hx5v, I, too, was having a difficult time deciding on the various P&S, ie Sony, Panasonic, Canon as each has their pros and cons.

I thought I share with the forum on how I decided on the Hx5. Obviously, this will be a subjective exercise as different individuals would have different rankings that correspond to their individual expectations, likes/dislikes of the different camera features that matters to them... there is no right or wrong answers..

Here's what I have done for my Hx5
Firstly, I listed all the pros and cons that matters to me. On a scale of 1 to 10, I assigned positive marks to all the Pros and negative marks for all my Cons according to how strongly I feel towards each of the pros and cons, .. and the conclusion is that it still resulted in a +25 for Hx5.

I understand some folks may not agree with this.. but it certainly helped me look at my purchase holistically and see the big picture.....again, we all have the freedom to be different... that's the beauty of life !

Pros:


1080 video - future proof purchase (10 points)

10x zoom in a small package. (8 points)

Face, smile, and blink, two heads recognition. (10 points)

HHT low light providing best still shots in its class (10 points)

Multibust 10 FPS. (8 points)

no video streaks in CMOS sensor lens (10 points)

Steady Shot. Able to snap blur free photos during brisk walks. (10 points)

On board Panorama Mode works (6 points)

Great intelligent mode and SCN mode (8 points)

GPS (4 points)

Cons:

low light video issue (-10 points)

soft stills - lack details under some conditions (-10 points)

video barrel distortion while shooting indoors at widest angle (-5 points)

short battery life (-8 points)

Jerky zoom (-5 points)

too easy to cover left microphone with finger (-4 points)

Fingerprint magnet... constantly polishing this thing. (-4 points)

mics sound quality are not that great.. still OK. (-7 points)

limited surface area to hold the camera, prone to accidental drop. (-6 points)

TOTAL: PROS PLUS CONS = +25 points


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