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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:05 am 
Sony HX5v vs Panasonic TZ10 Side by Side Video Part 3
Part 3: CNN Corner, Atlanta, Georgia

Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

When recording these clips, the Sony HX5v had poor low light performanced as compared to the Panasonic TZ10 in the areas of brightness of image during recording, and ability of the autofocus to find objects. It would frequently loose the target image, and get lost in focus.

As far as the Panasonic TZ10 is concerned, it has severe light streaking upon encountering bright sources of lights, or reflections, both during the day and night.

The HD (1440x1080P) video is now available on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpPzasUxw9I.

It may take some time for the all resolutions to be available for viewing.


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:09 am 
Thanks MikesMultiMedia for your comparison of both low lights clips. Very interesting

Ric


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:22 am 
Sony HX5v vs Panasonic TZ10 Side by Side Video Part 4
Part 4: GA Aquarium Sunset, Atlanta, Georgia

Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

Panasonic TZ10 Issues - Light Streaks in bright lights or reflections.
Sony HX5v - Low light performance issues.,

The HD (1440x1080P) video is now available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luHYzNcJx_k.

It may take some time for youtube to process the HD resolutions versions for viewing.


Last edited by MikesMultiMedia on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:55 am 
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Great work Mike! I've commented on the streaking issue in the Panasonic TZ10 / ZS7 thread - I believe it's a CCD vs CMOS issue, which affects many CCD-based cameras.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:42 am 
Sony HX5v vs Panasonic TZ10 vs Side by Side Video Part 5
Part 5: Atlanta Station - Pond and Monument - Nightime.

Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

Panasonic TZ10 Issues - Light Streaks in bright lights or reflections.
Sony HX5v - Low light performance issues.

The Sony also has a sluggish autofocus at night.
As exhibited when I put my hand in front of the camera,
and took it away, it took a while for the focus to regain
itself back to where it was.

Panasonic seemed to hold its own.

Don't forget, the Sony also has the "on then off" zoom lever, vs.
Panasonic's variable zoom lever which results in a much more refined
zooming experience.

Both cameras were set to the intelligent modes, or full auto.
The settings are what ever the camera thought would be best.

The HD (1440x1080P) video is now available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSaMdCZpE74.

It may take some time for youtube to process the HD resolutions versions for viewing.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:56 pm 
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Hi everyone, I've just published my Canon SX210 IS review:

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon ... _SX210_IS/

The reason I'm telling you here is because the results pages compare it directly against the HX5, and I've included new HHT and AMB comparisons. I hope you find it useful.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Location: Pasadena, CA
After using the HX5 for about a week and looking at the pictures and video I decided to return it and go with the FZ35.
Tried the camera in my local Frys and it handles pretty well, is light and not to bulky.

I never got comfortable with the HX5 picture quality and menu settings. No quick menu, no AF auto tracking to follow a active child around and just to change the ev takes a lot of steps I find. I find the pictures all a bit washed out and not as sharp.

Video during the day is ok, but in the dark it has to much noise I find.

So even the FZ 35 is a bit bulkier, the hopefully better picture quality makes it worthwhile. Sometimes you can take a pic just once and then it should be as best as can be considering all things.

For a pocket-able P&S I can always use my TZ3


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:56 pm 
Sony HX5v vs Panasonic TZ10 Side by Side Video Part 6
Part 6: Atlanta Station - Overpass.
Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

Production Notes:

Sony HX5v Issues:

1. Low light performance issues. Will set itself to a darker setting, causing overall scene to be darker. However, lowering the brightness allows for details in the lighter areas to be preserved. This may be corrected, in post production, using a mid to upper end video editor. However, this means that "out of the box video" from the camera requires much more processing before you can work with it (i.e., playback on your TV at end of day).

2. Autofocus is definitely slower, and gets lost easier after it achieves focus (at night).

3. Image stabilization is not as powerfull and steady as the Panasonic TZ10.

4. Original source resolution @1440x1080i (AVCHD) format.


Panasonic TZ10 Issues:

1. Light Streaks in bright lights or reflections, at night, the streaks are blue, vertical and cover the entire screen.

2. Has crispy nightime performance, brighter, however, the brighter white areas loose detail (see billboards in distance).

3. Both Cameras set at their intelligent modes, auto everything.

4. Lost didn't achieve desired focus once.

5. Original source resolution @1280x720 AVCHD format.

6. Panasonic's Power IS shows. If you pay close attention to the clips, you can see that the Panasonic TZ10 shows less movement during pans, and other minor camera adjustments (such as at end of clip, when there is that inevitable wobble) The TZ10 holds steady.


The HD (1440x1080P) has been posted on youtube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0thHaeUnNk

Full HD resolution will take some time to process by youtube.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:05 pm 
Sony HX5v vs Panasonic TZ10 Side by Side Video
Part 7 Piedmont Park - Typical Day [720P] Daytime.
Image

This is part of a multipart side by side video series
comparing these two camera's video performance.

Production Notes:

Sony HX5v (Source @ 1280x720 H.264/MPEG-4 AVC Format):
1. Sony has 10x limit on focus vs. Pana 12/16x.
2. More shades of color, but not as vivid.
3. Image Stabilizer not as good as Panasonic.
4. No light streaking.

Panasonic TZ10 (Source @ 1280x720 Quicktime MOV Format):
1. Daytime white light streaking in sunlight.
2. Sharper video, higher contrast between objects.
3. Zooming restricted to 10x vs 16x to be fair to
Sony HX5v's 10x limit. Can zoom in much more.
4. Audio is more robust than Sony.
5. Video still frame has nice clarity and resolution.

The HD (1280x720P) video is available on youtube at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8ZmP-siacI.

It may take some time for youtube to process the HD resolutions versions for viewing.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Hi Mike, do you think it's worth matching the coverage of each camera so that we can also compare resolution and detail? Remember the Panasonic starts at 25mm equiv compared to the 28mm on the Sony, so you'd need to zoom the Pannie in a small amount to match the Sony view. It can be hard to get them exactly the same, but you can get them quite close...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:17 pm 
Thanks for your observation Gordon:

You're hitting one of the technical nails on the head when you make the zoom setting observations.

Again, I threw myself into this project, and slightly evolved in how the material was mechanically captured using the two cameras.

Below are some of the technical issues I had to resolve, or try to resolve, along the way.

Lens Wide Open - No Zoom

This setting was easy, just back up the zoom all the way, or set the cameras at no zoom, align the frames, and shoot. Those clips are any clips which are not zoomed. I tried to restrict any zooming to 0 or 10x. I figured that there would be issues in zooming, and there were as discussed below.


Zoom Setting Numerical Indicator - Hard to Fine Tune / Inconsistent between cameras

I started noticing that the camera's numerical scale for zoom was difficult to get on 10x (perhaps not for the Sony - Just zoom until it stops. But for the Panasonic TZ10 SZ7, I had to "dial" it in.

The numerical indicator would hit the 10x mark, but allowed me a couple of more ticks of zoom before it actually cleared the 10x numerical indicator. Just take a camera that can go past 10X, or any mark, and watch that it will stay at the mark, for a couple of ticks, and then increment to the next zoom level.

Differences in what "x" really means per camera.

What I mean here is that when I needed perhaps a shallower zoom, perhaps 5x, I tried zooming each of the cameras to 5x, well, that was an interesting challenge, adventure and discovery.

What happened was that, and I can't remember which one did what, but if you zoom both the cameras to 5x (which isn't easy to do by the way, the slight zoom setting is hard to find using the zoom lever, especially if the zoom motor isn't a variable speed zoom), you will notice that the framed scene is not the same. One frame either had a bit more zoom, or was further away from the scene, etc.

So in other words, the Pansonic's 5x soom is not the same as the Sony's 5x soom. If you step back and think about it, from 0-10x zoom, each camera's lens action, settings, optics, all impact what is eveually landing on the sensor

By the way - what does 10x really mean? Is it 10x from some universal standard rule book? Is it 10x from what I see with my eye? Or is it 10x from the cameras' starting point?

In light of this inconsistent numerical zoom indicator discovery, on my second day of filming (using the alternative rec formats for each) I think I started using a different approach where I would just zoom each camera to what ever it took to have equal amounts of scene information in each screen - the importance being the focus of the project in the side by side videos.

Remember, at all times I tried to limit my zoom to either 0 or 10x. I wanted to avoid the zoom factor coming into the discussion. However, if the scene required it, I may have not gone all the way to 10x, but I would at least try to stop at 5x only.

However, since the zoom x factor's were different along each camera's zoom scale, I would have had to make minor zoom adjustments to the scene, simply trying to frame each one equally. This is how I would do it today, and on future multi camera view tests.

Back in the editing room, I noticed this was a problem as well, so keeping the framing as equal as possible has to take priority to matching the zoom x factor.

I think it would be an interesting test to also uncover what each camera's zoom x factor was along the way to its max zoom. (Study would take the camera, place it on one side of the room. Place a target on the wall, and with large paper cutouts put the distance along the way to the wall. Then zoom each camera to its max, stopping along the way, taking a picture, to study what the frame differences are along the way.

Pencil in front of your Nose Issue

The other issue is simple camera positioning on my rig. Each camera was placed within 12 inches of each other. Perhaps on longer shots, thier angle of perspective would not be too noticeable However, in the tighter shots, this made a difference as in the close shots of the flowers.

Even if I tried "framing" the shots equally around the flower, due to each camera's slight distance from each other, they would see a difference view of the flower. Imagine putting a pencil in front of your face, and looking at it with each eye.

If you close the right eye, then the left eye will see perhaps the 6-9 oclock side of the pencil, if you closed the left eye, the right eye will see the 3-6 oclock side of the pencil.

More noticeably, and you can see in the samples, what changes more dramatically is the background when doing the close multi-camera video work.

So for close up work, the distance between the two cameras need to be reduced as much as possible to avoid perspective shifts.

Video Resolution Decisions and AVCHD, MOV, MP4 formats:

I almost rendered Part 7 at 1440x1080, assuming the Sony HX5v simply changed recording format when set to MP4. But I did a quick check, and the source files for the sony MP4's were 1280x720. I had to catch myself, and make sure I rendered the side by side video at 1280x720.

Don't know if it was just me and a sony setting. But I'd be curious to know if the Sony can in fact record at its advertised HD rez for both AVCHD and its alternative, MP4 formats. I know there are many settings when recording in either formats, so perhaps it just defaulted to 1280x720. I will note that in AVCHD, I couldn't set it to record at 1280x720 oddly enough. Or I just was too stupid to figure it out.

Individual Clips to be rendered separately.

The individual clips of my side by side videos will be rendered separately, and in their native resolutions. I elected to process the side by side videos first, thinking these would be the most informative. Then I'll go back and render each of the parts of the series as stand alone clips.

This will mean that the Sony HX5, and Panasonic TZ10 ZS7's clips will be rendered in their original source rez or at 1440x1080, and 1280x720 respectively. I did not record any of the Sony clips in 1920x1080 format, perhaps because I felt that was way too far off for the side by side with Pana's 1280x720 max/source resolutions. And secretely, between you and me, and the million other people on you forum, I don't usually work with 1920x1080 unless I really have too. The hardware and software requirements to make the rendering and editing times reasonable, are a bit demanding.

To Wrap up.

I was fooling around with my Canon XH-A1, Nikon D3s, and my old Panasonic TZ1 for a side by side by side (side x 3) comparison footage to see what the results would be.

Surprisingly the little TZ1 seemed to hold its own, where the Canon and Nikon footage was nice, but required extra camera settings and attention to make the comparison worth while, at least between the Canon and Nikon. The Canon shoots at 1440x1080i, and the Nikon at 1280x720p.

Well, right off the bat I'll tell you the Nikon D3s was very nice, especially with the Shallow Depth of Field from its F2.8 lenses. But low light seems to challenge these cameras, unless my settings need to be tweeked, which is quite possible.

However, the Nikon D3s had a bunch of zoom noise, which sounded like a wood pecker banging on the side of the lens. That is why you probably see these cameras being used with External mics when engaged in video production. Wonderful shallow depth of field though (Nikon), way more than the Canon XH-A1.

Well I'll stop here, don't want to wonder too far off topic.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:38 pm 
Mike, you did a terrific job in your comparison.
i wonder if you considered to dial the EV from the panasonic a bit down to prevent the blown out buildings and the sky and dial the EV from the sony a bit up to brighten up the scene.

Image

Image

also when i watched your hx5 footage next to the TZ10 it was much worse in quality than every other hx5 solo footage i have seen so far.
so i wonder how much quality got lost in "translation"?

you also mention that the panasonic has a better IS than the HX5
this can only be the case if you did not switch on the active mode because this mode should have a far superior stabilisation than any pocket zoom.
Image

.
and thank you Gordon for adding the HHT in church shots


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Indeed Gordon, thanks for adding the additional tests on the HX5. Though not looking to buy one myself, I do at least find the HHT mode to be a fairly noteworthy feature for compact cameras, as it does allow for significant improvement in high ISO results, even compared to larger sensor cameras. As you mention, there's no real reason not to use it for such scenes where you would have been using a higher ISO anyway, assuming no vast movements within the scene...and certainly that's why it is valid to test it and compare it to other cameras' high ISO performance. You use the tools the camera provides to get the best out of a given camera in a given situation...The TX1, WX1, HX1, TX5, TX7, and HX5 all share this useful feature and all have significantly better high ISO performance when using HHT than their compact competition...to the point of actually being usable for prints or display.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:33 pm 
@Gran Canaria:

I didn't get into any adjustments on either of the cameras. I simply turned them on, dialed them into their Intelligent modes, and started shooting.

I figured if I started "dialing' in each camera, that my bias would start altering the objectiveness of the video testing.

If I had the cameras still, I would conduct side by side video stabilization testing as well. Putting them through identical conditions, and the side by side footage will show the actual results.

And by watching where the two side by side video frames meet in the middle, you will see either the Panasonic TZ10 or the Sony HX5v will have better IS.

If there were more settings to fool with on the Sony HX5 regarding IS, then so be it.

Again, this was Out of the Box testing, typical consumer usage type results.

I also was trying to make my footage natural coverage, and typical. For instance, I didn't simply find all reflective surfaces to record, to illustrate the Panasonic's light streaks.

My idea was to simply have the light streaking occur on typical shots found natural in the wild. Like the ducks in the pond, or the sunset by the GA Aquarium, or the flickering of sun through the trees.

These scenarios would occur naturally in the video recording wild. I suppose.

I like that graph regarding camera shake.

I'll be posting each of the side by side footage individually as soon as I'm done with the final Part 8 side by side.

My computer is fast, but not that fast. I did however, just order the new i7 980x, so I'm hoping to churn out my fun video projects faster.

User Tweeks in camera and post production

Sure, user setting adjustments on the camera could possible tweek the images a bit here and there. Especially for the brightness factors on each.

Also, in post production, the Sony's dimmer light look could be boosted as well.

But these are refined experienced and semi-pro to pro adjustments that I'm not sure each user may be ready for.

I'm still trying to get my wife to make a simple video slide show of her shots of my kid using a mickey mouse program. It seems like at the end of the day, what is in the camera, is what is looked at.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:18 pm 
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Hi everyone, I did several other HHT and AMB comparisons, and as promised, will update my HX5 review with them soon. I'll let you know when it's done...


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