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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:01 pm 
grahamnp wrote:
I don't think so. The MSRP of the A380 is level with that of the Canon and the Nikon so it's unlikely that the A5xx will be competing with the 500d or D5000. It's more likely to go up against the 50d and the D90 where again, it's going to come up short. On paper at least.


And that's based on what exactly? AFAIK there is absolutely no info whatsoever on the A5xx series. Also, the A2xx compares favourably with the D60/1000D - on paper.

The A5xx wouldn't be competing with the 50D/D90 considering that the A700 is already cheaper than both of those, and it wouldn't make sense to make the lower model better (the ability to record video in no way makes it better). Sony's models are available with much larger discounts on their MSRP than either Canon or Nikon models.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:49 am 
The A700 is competing with the D90 and the 50d because of the massive discounting that it's had since it's introduction, it's the oldest of these three cameras, when it came out it was far more expensive than the D80 and the same price as the 40d. If the A380 already costs the same as the D5000 and 500d, then it makes sense for the next model up in Sony's range to compete at a level higher than the aforementioned Nikon or Canon. This should make sense unless Sony chooses to position the A5xx lower than the A380 which, going by the model number, is unlikely.

Yes it makes sense for Sony to give the A5xx more features than the A700 because it is the newer camera. The A700 is almost two years old, it doesn't make sense for Sony to cripple their entire line-up because of an aging camera. The A7xx line won't stay behind on features for long because Sony will replace it with a model that brings it back up to date.

Yes, the ability to record video makes it better. An extra feature is an extra feature regardless of whether you, Sony or myself think it is useful.

I'm not trying to insult Sony here. I'm just pointing out that they've put themselves in a seemingly bad position. If it's worth anything, Sony going up against Canon and Nikon can only mean better things for all of us as consumers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:05 pm 
I am (not?) biased here i've just read here in a local magazine that people now are tryin to get one dslr regardless the brand they just get dslr for a change and here's the sony might fish them as newbie never talks about cmos and every thing... they say Brand first! (and shhh they don't know that canikon is on the top of dslr) :) :D :lol:

there are lots of entry people than pro :?:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:28 pm 
I got my hands on the 330 and 380 today at the Professional Imaging Exhibition (in Zürich).

So just to confirm my assumptions: The grip is horrible (unlike the one of the a700 which was just next to it and had a great grip) - I mean seriously horrible. And we took some pictures at ISO 800 and well, guess what - tons of noise, easily visible even on the camera LCD. I can't imagine why anybody would waste money on that, sorry.

Oh and as I'm selling cameras myself, I definitely know what the low-end customer is asking of cameras. And most people who are looking into a DSLR, want the one with the highest image quality. Movie mode is also very very faishonable at the moment. You bet I won't recommend the new sonys to anyone. Before you ask, no I'm not just selling Canons, only because I'm using one myself. In fact, I recently find myself recommending a lot of Nikons because I find their newest cameras with the excellent, cheap 18-105mm most suitable for the typical "prosumer".


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 3:35 pm 
The ergo, grip and style of the A330/380 I actually really like. Its styled almost exactly like the Maxxum 5. If you pair that thing with the prime 50, it feels like youre carrying nothing. I may even get one just because its so lightweight.

Sounds like youre just eager to trash talk Sony. You'll forgive me if I don't just take your word for it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:09 pm 
Nostrum wrote:
I got my hands on the 330 and 380 today at the Professional Imaging Exhibition (in Zürich).

So just to confirm my assumptions: The grip is horrible (unlike the one of the a700 which was just next to it and had a great grip) - I mean seriously horrible. And we took some pictures at ISO 800 and well, guess what - tons of noise, easily visible even on the camera LCD. I can't imagine why anybody would waste money on that, sorry.

Oh and as I'm selling cameras myself, I definitely know what the low-end customer is asking of cameras. And most people who are looking into a DSLR, want the one with the highest image quality. Movie mode is also very very faishonable at the moment. You bet I won't recommend the new sonys to anyone. Before you ask, no I'm not just selling Canons, only because I'm using one myself. In fact, I recently find myself recommending a lot of Nikons because I find their newest cameras with the excellent, cheap 18-105mm most suitable for the typical "prosumer".


lol you ''see'' the noise in the LCD screen....

here is a really iso test of a REAL user

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=31957972


Last edited by SLR722 on Thu May 28, 2009 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:45 pm 
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From that link, I think it looks improved over the previous generation, but the chroma noise is still present noticeably stronger than the competition.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:54 pm 
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Leaving the grip for what it is (honestly, doesn't look to comfortable, then again, you'd get used to it I guess), the location of the shutter button is what really surprised me. Totally unlogical place to put the most important button of the whole camera. I can not wait to get my hands on one of the new models and see how it handles.

In the link (to DPreview :evil: ) there is a significant amount of noise in the shadow areas. I'm used to that, so I'm not surprised, but it means that Nostrum is right. The noise issue hasn't been solved just yet.

EDIT: Deleted note to SLR722 (that's a wonderful car BTW).

- Bjorn -

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Last edited by Bjorn van Sinttruije on Thu May 28, 2009 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:39 pm 
Ok


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:42 pm 
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Thanks! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:50 pm 
There is little to no difference in noise performance between the entry level Sonys and their competing models. Factoring in, of course, resolution. a 6 mpix image will show relatively less noise on screen then a 10 mpix image, but when printing, the noise on the 6mpix image will be more noticable.

Anyway - just to show the absurdity of all this (X camera has slightly better noise performance than Y), I decided to paste together a few ISO 800 shots from a Sony A200 and 3 competing models, can any of you tell which one is which?
Image[/url]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:59 pm 
Anbesol wrote:
The ergo, grip and style of the A330/380 I actually really like. Its styled almost exactly like the Maxxum 5. If you pair that thing with the prime 50, it feels like youre carrying nothing. I may even get one just because its so lightweight.

Sounds like youre just eager to trash talk Sony. You'll forgive me if I don't just take your word for it?


I'm not bothered by brand wars whatsoever.. heck, I bet the a700+900 with those nice big ZEISS zooms are absolutely great. But this doesn't change the fact, that the new sonys are going in the wrong direction IMO. Of course, ergonomics are a personal thing and you might like it, but I suspect the majority would much prefer a bigger grip with some actual rubber on it, instead of that uncomfortable little thing the new alphas have. I'm not saying the grip of the Canon 500D is any better (well, IMO it is better actually, but still not really good).

And believe and buy whatever you like, of course. But I fail to see why anybody would prefer a a380 over, say, a D5000 nowadays.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:40 pm 
Nostrum wrote:
But I fail to see why anybody would prefer a a380 over, say, a D5000 nowadays.

Thats an easy one - lack of legacy lens selection. One of the great things about mounts today is their compatibility with great lens of the past 2 decades. Nikon's lack of inclusion of an internal AF motor severely limits the selection to only the newest AF-S lens which are far lesser quality to cost and far fewer in number and selection. I would certainly rather have a huge, full lens selection than HD Video capability.

If you fail to see this very fundamental difference, recheck your work. When you sell your customers those Nikons, make sure they know that they can only get AF-S lens (unless they dont mind being stuck in manual focus).
Quote:
And we took some pictures at ISO 800 and well, guess what - tons of noise, easily visible even on the camera LCD. I can't imagine why anybody would waste money on that, sorry.

I'm also curious - you are certain there is a noticable difference between the noise performance of the Sonys and the competition, so can you peg which of those shots is the Sony? Can anybody here?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:32 am 
Imaging resource have samples of the A330

strange that ISO 3200 looks better than ISO 1600

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:31 am 
Anbesol wrote:
I'm also curious - you are certain there is a noticable difference between the noise performance of the Sonys and the competition, so can you peg which of those shots is the Sony? Can anybody here?


I'll say that it is the bottom right picture? The noise isn't too bad but the NR has a slight "blotchiness" to it. The noise performance deficit may not be obvious here, but try ISO1600 where results are still usable on the D5000.

The noise performance of the Sony's isn't obviously bad, I wouldn't say that it's obvious on the LCD without zooming in a few levels but the competition are increasing the highest ISO at which we consider usable and increasing the MP count and DR at the same time so why isn't Sony doing the same?

I am guessing bottom left is a Nikon? The output is very obviously oversaturated unfortunately.


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